Going quarterly with StarFrontiersman... in favor?

    Yes - quarterly would give you a chance to build a backlog of submissions.
    73% (16 votes)
    No - I want my dose monthly!!
    14% (3 votes)
    Neutral - As long as you deliver what you promise, it could be annual for all I care.
    14% (3 votes)
    Total votes: 22
    Comments:

    CleanCutRogue's picture
    CleanCutRogue
    March 31, 2008 - 9:54pm
    I'm considering doing this for a few reasons... 1) it would lessen the burden on the new staff, 2) it might give us a chance to build a backlog of submissions so we're not starting from scratch with each issue like I currently do, 3) I'm tired of consistently disappointing everyone with false promises; It bothers me to not do what I say I'll do.
    3. We wear sungoggles during the day. Not because the sun affects our vision, but when you're cool like us the sun shines all the time.

    -top 11 reasons to be a Yazirian, ShadowShack


    SmootRK's picture
    SmootRK
    April 1, 2008 - 12:40am
    I would prefer monthly, but would gladly settle for quarterly... and yes, I would understand not wanting to disappoint folks with missed 'deadlines'.
    <insert witty comment here>

    Corvus's picture
    Corvus
    April 1, 2008 - 6:34am
    I, too, would prefer monthly, but so long as the quarterly issues contained enough content to justify the wait I'd be happy.
    If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe. -- Carl Sagan

    bioreplica's picture
    bioreplica
    April 1, 2008 - 11:58am
    «Less is more» To quote the famous german Architect Meis Van der Rohe.
    «Language is a virus from outer space» William S. Burroughs

    Anonymous's picture
    Corjay (not verified)
    April 1, 2008 - 2:41pm
    I, too, would prefer monthly, but am okay with quarterly.

    Full Bleed's picture
    Full Bleed
    April 1, 2008 - 6:40pm
    It's better to under-promise and over-perform.

    So, with that mentality in mind, I think you should officially make SFMan a yearly publication that comes out Quarterly.  ;)

    Then people will be estatic!!



    Gergmaster's picture
    Gergmaster
    April 1, 2008 - 6:47pm
    I think a quarterly will help the ezine get more stuff in it. It will also relieve the pressure on the guys putting it together for the fans to read. Also I can help out more in the issues if it becomes more of a quarterly.
    Confucious Says:
         Man with one chopstick go hungry.
         Man who eat many prunes get good run for money.
         Man who live in glass house should change clothes in basement.

    CleanCutRogue's picture
    CleanCutRogue
    April 1, 2008 - 7:01pm
    More stuff in it?!  70 page PDFs aren't big enough now? haha...
    3. We wear sungoggles during the day. Not because the sun affects our vision, but when you're cool like us the sun shines all the time.

    -top 11 reasons to be a Yazirian, ShadowShack


    Corvus's picture
    Corvus
    April 2, 2008 - 1:07am
    CleanCutRogue wrote:
    More stuff in it?! 70 page PDFs aren't big enough now? haha...


    Honestly, for a quarterly magazine?  I'd be disappointed.  This is the 21st century, not the early 1980s.  We can get more content than that into a mag published every three months.
    If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe. -- Carl Sagan

    CleanCutRogue's picture
    CleanCutRogue
    April 2, 2008 - 4:55am
    wow... that totally defeats the purpose of going quarterly.  The primary idea was to have a chance to build a backlog so I don't have to start from scratch with each issue.  Just how many pages would please folks if we go quarterly?
    3. We wear sungoggles during the day. Not because the sun affects our vision, but when you're cool like us the sun shines all the time.

    -top 11 reasons to be a Yazirian, ShadowShack


    Rum Rogue's picture
    Rum Rogue
    April 2, 2008 - 10:15am
    CleanCutRogue wrote:
    wow... that totally defeats the purpose of going quarterly.  The primary idea was to have a chance to build a backlog so I don't have to start from scratch with each issue.  Just how many pages would please folks if we go quarterly?


    I think 50-70 would be fine.  Especially since it is a free publication.  CCR dedicated alot of personal time to come up a good publication.  I think that any team that works on this will be hard pressed, at first, to match his efforts. After they get settled into the position and comfortable they can decide where to go from there.
    Personnaly I would like to see it start as a quarterly then go bi-monthly. 50-70 pages would be ideal for that.
    20-25 pages if it goes back to monthly.

     I will gladly help ya'll out however I can.
    Time flies when your having rum.

    Im a government employee, I dont goof-off. I constructively abuse my time.

    bioreplica's picture
    bioreplica
    April 2, 2008 - 2:55pm
    Corvus wrote:
    CleanCutRogue wrote:
    More stuff in it?! 70 page PDFs aren't big enough now? haha...
    Honestly, for a quarterly magazine? I'd be disappointed. This is the 21st century, not the early 1980s. We can get more content than that into a mag published every three months.


    We all know the StarFrontiersman is not a professional publication. It comes out because of the good will of a few individuals who do this for the love of the game and of writing material for SF. What CCR as done up to now is a miracle... Try to find the equivalent in d20 Futur for exemple? 70 pages is more than enough as a starting goal. This has nothing do to with PDFs or being in the 21st century. It has to do with putting forth goals that can be actually achieved....Wink
    «Language is a virus from outer space» William S. Burroughs

    Anonymous's picture
    Corjay (not verified)
    April 2, 2008 - 10:35pm
    Yeah, there's no reason to up the page count just because it goes quarterly. In the 80's a fanzine actually had about 16 pages that were four pieces of paper stapled together in the middle and came out when the people felt like it. So we are already in the new millennium by being able to provide 70 pages in a PDF. Most quarterly webzine PDF's are no more than 70 pages, and those are for much, much larger RPG communities. I'd say we're doing a bangup job.

    Corvus's picture
    Corvus
    April 3, 2008 - 1:48pm
    Corjay wrote:
    I'd say we're doing a bangup job.


    I'd say Bill was doing a bangup job for a monthly magazine.  Watch that "we", he was doing all the work.  The magazine got a startling amount of submissions when the magazine was coming out on a very rapid schedule.  Now a staff is being added to take the load off of Bill so that his situation doesn't hinder the production of the magazine.  Stretching it out to quarterly without increasing the amount of material put out means there's little to no need for a full staff.  The call for a full staff and the changing of the period to quarterly means that a lot more material could be handled just fine.

    This insistance on building up a "backlog" of material seems very arbitrary and, I will state flat out, illogical.  If you're worried about running out of material, ditch the regular schedule and say that the mag will be published when we have enough material to make a full issue.  Try pushing harder for submissions.  Advertise.  Get the word out.  A quarterly magazine for a fandom that we have been told repeatedly is highly vital and energetic ought to be able to produce 80-100 pages in three months.  I honestly cannot understand the incredulous reactions to that concept that have heretofore been displayed.
    If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe. -- Carl Sagan

    Anonymous's picture
    Corjay (not verified)
    April 3, 2008 - 6:27pm
    I believe the contributions come from the community. I'm sorry, but I'm not going to neglect the community's contributions. Yes it is "WE", because I sure as hell know I've contributed. The only incredulity shown here is your caustic reaction. No one here has been caustic until you. Tone it down. Bill knows how much work is needed. If he thought it was easy, he wouldn't be taking the other side of the issue. If you think it's so easy, then how about running your own mag.

    Once the staff of SFman is chosen, they can determine how much they can handle after they have done an issue or two. It's also not about how much they can stuff into an issue, but how much the community contributes. Instead of going by the obnoxious demands of a single person, I suggest the magazine go with the voice of experience.

    You called having a "back log" of material as being "arbitrary". This magazine has been around for a year now; 8 issues have been produced, and you call it "arbitrary". Bill has spoken about the need for a back log since issue 5. Even when I was helping with the original Knowledge Arcana, the staff there was talking about building up a back log. Question: How many magazines have you helped? Especially, how many have your run? Do you somehow have knowledge of things that Bill doesn't? Perhaps you might share your credentials with us.

    bioreplica's picture
    bioreplica
    April 3, 2008 - 7:37pm
    Survey : (april 3)
    For quaterly 14
    Neutral 3
    Against 1

    I think the community as spoken clearly with the voice of reason...
    «Language is a virus from outer space» William S. Burroughs

    Corvus's picture
    Corvus
    April 3, 2008 - 10:57pm
    Corjay wrote:
    I believe the contributions come from the community. I'm sorry, but I'm not going to neglect the community's contributions. Yes it is "WE", because I sure as hell know I've contributed. The only incredulity shown here is your caustic reaction. No one here has been caustic until you. Tone it down. Bill knows how much work is needed. If he thought it was easy, he wouldn't be taking the other side of the issue. If you think it's so easy, then how about running your own mag.


    And how about you take a long walk off a very tall cliff?  I have reached the end of my patience with you and your so-called problems.  You were blatantly trying to take Bill's credit, and you got caught at it.  Next you'll fall back on either claiming to just want to understand or blame your mental and emotional issues.  Your projects are half-formed, over-managed and ill-conceived, your "contributions" to the site consist mainly of trying to elbow your way into everyone else's ideas and insisting that you know things you don't actually know anything about.  Then you start fights on other forums and then try to bring them here, thinking that we're going to act like your personal posse when the hornet's nest you stirred up follows you.  You, sir, are a horrific detriment to this community, a black mark on the ideas that originated with Bill Logan and a general irritant.  You are in no place to be telling anyone what to do or acting like a martyr when your nonsense finally reaches critical mass.  You are not an expert in managing anything, you're just an obnoxious brat with too much time on his hands.  The only benefit of your association with this entire community so far has been your contributions to the Frontiersman.  It would do us all a great deal of good if you would stick to that and stop meddling with anything else.

    Corjay wrote:
    Instead of going by the obnoxious demands of a single person,


    Yours.

    Corjay wrote:
    I suggest the magazine go with the voice of experience.


    Most emphatically not yours.

    Corjay wrote:
    Perhaps you might share your credentials with us.


    And what has this precious Knowledge Arcana of yours gotten us?  All you wound up with was an ego war between yourself and someone else over trademarks, which you obsessed over and then tried to inflict upon us, as if we would become your personal army.  When that didn't happen, you ran and hid.  You don't know nearly as much as you claim to and unfortunately believe you do.  Your so-called credentials are laughable; in fact, meaningless.  You do not engage in reasonable conversation; you make claims and then hide behind circular pseudologic, claims of authority and selective deafness.  You don't know the half of what is said about you behind your back, so I'll tell you now: I'm not the only one who has had enough of you.  You do yourself no credit by continuing to claim authority and prestige you do not have.

    So, to summarize: shut your mouth, kid.  Adults are talking and you have a lot of growing up to do.  You aren't qualified to be taken seriously by any of the other members of this community who, unlike you, can carry on a conversation even if they disagree.
    If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe. -- Carl Sagan

    Corvus's picture
    Corvus
    April 3, 2008 - 11:00pm
    bioreplica wrote:
    Survey : (april 3)
    For quaterly 14
    Neutral 3
    Against 1

    I think the community as spoken clearly with the voice of reason...


    I would say that was crystal clear, absolutely.  Even with that few votes, compared to the site's membership, we probably have a sufficient picture.
    If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe. -- Carl Sagan

    Anonymous's picture
    Corjay (not verified)
    April 4, 2008 - 12:33am
    Corjay wrote:
    Yeah, there's no reason to up the page count just because it goes quarterly. In the 80's a fanzine actually had about 16 pages that were four pieces of paper stapled together in the middle and came out when the people felt like it. So we are already in the new millennium by being able to provide 70 pages in a PDF. Most quarterly webzine PDF's are no more than 70 pages, and those are for much, much larger RPG communities. I'd say we're doing a bangup job.
    Where does 70 pages of content come from? I'd say it comes from all the contributors. I gave credit where credit was due. "We" means all of us who have contributed. There is nothing in there that indicates that "I" was taking credit for anyone else's effort. If you want more content, then you are requesting more content from the community, not Bill.

    It was a guy just like you that stole that magazine from the community, because he was too easily riled and taking things out of context and blowing them out of proportion. So in his hot temper he filed the trademark and destroyed our effort, which you speak so lightly of. Knowledge Arcana was a widely distributed and well-respected webzine and a LOT of people were hurt by that guy's callous and reactionary actions.

    CleanCutRogue's picture
    CleanCutRogue
    April 4, 2008 - 1:50am
    *sigh*

    I value the opinions and efforts of everyone who has contributed to the webzine, to this site, to the hobby in general.  We've had a difficult time sometimes agreeing on what is "Hard" sci-fi, what is "core" SF, or whatever.  It's quite true that I do a TON of work on the SFman... more than I take credit for (sometimes all I get from someone is a few sentences, and I turn it into a piece of equipment or an article or an archetype - I think many of you remember a time when you submitted something bare-bones and were surprised at the article it turned into - and I usually simply give your name in the byline and take no credit).  But the truth is, I couldn't have gone as far as I've gone with this webzine or this site without the support of everyone.  Not just one person, but everyone.

    I once said to Corjay after a somewhat heated argument with Art Eaton over at starfrontiers.org that anyone worth working with usually has a big ego, and I've learned to deal with that and look past it because big egos usually result in big arguments.  I don't know if that's been helpful or baneful to this community - as I've allowed a lot of arguments and negative posts to slide by without doing a thing about it.  Maybe I was wrong in doing that, but this is such a small community that losing any one part of it damages it quite a bit.  I don't want to lose anyone.

    The contributions of Corjay to the sfman have been bountiful.  Not everyone has agreed with some of his articles, but not everyone agrees with mine either.  That's the coolest thing about a fanzine - it's not official, it has a ton of this and that, and you sprinkle what you like into your campaigns.

    I am asking now, for all to hear, plain and simple: self edit.  Look at your posts on this site, and decide if you really want to type what you type.  I'm not going to moderate posts and squash arguments because you're all adults.  Please use the common sense rule I tell my kids (and can be found in nearly any bible of nearly any faith): Treat others how you wish to be treated.

    Corjay: Please be careful with your wordings... the only problems I've had on this site have been conflicts where you were one of the parties involved in that conflict.  Most of the time, I've been convinced that folks mistook what you were saying and have defended you - but to be honest I shouldn't have to do that all the time.  Please keep your discussions constructive.  I've been helped by your contributions to threads I've started, but I've also had moments where I just stared open-mouthed at your post, wondering why you felt the need to say what you've said in the manner you've said it.  It's not always what you say, it's more often how you say it.  There are times when I come off rude too - we're all human, and when someone calls me out on it I'm quick to apologize for how I treated them - publicly - and it's quite heartfelt, even if I fully believe I was right or that they misinterpreted me, I'm still honestly sorry that my wording came across the way it did.  When someone calls you out on the same thing, you either divert it away from you with excuses or get very condescending with them.  I've heard many complaints (I won't name you all here) by people... and I've always managed to keep the peace by showing them to be tolerant of your ways, because it's just your character, your personality, and you're not meaning the tone that's coming across.  I honestly believe that's the case.  But it doesn't come across that way.  I continue to value your input and your contributions - especially your art - and that last article for issue 8 was fantastic!  I even value the private conversations we've had and will continue to have.  What I don't want is for me to have to type anything like this again, as it's not in my character to do so.  Re-read every post you type and edit for tone.

    3. We wear sungoggles during the day. Not because the sun affects our vision, but when you're cool like us the sun shines all the time.

    -top 11 reasons to be a Yazirian, ShadowShack


    elpotof's picture
    elpotof
    April 4, 2008 - 2:00am
    Can we all put the ego's away please? I use this site becuase it involves my hobby; I want to contribute to new ideas when I can ( believe me that's not been easy over the last few months). It took the words of Bill in the last issue of SF to take stock of the situation - people are losing sight in what they are trying to achieve - Supporting a hobby via contributions and new ideas.

    All this bickering is offputting and is putting me off coming to this site.

    Anonymous's picture
    Corjay (not verified)
    April 4, 2008 - 4:12am
    All about me again, I see. I get the false accusation tossed at me over a completely innocuous post. I get cussed at. And it's my fault, not for anything I did in this thread, but for what I've supposedly done in the past. That's just beautiful.

    Gargoyle2k7's picture
    Gargoyle2k7
    April 6, 2008 - 5:53am
    Um... wow.  Ouch.
    Long live the Frontier!