Uniforms

jedion357's picture
jedion357
January 24, 2011 - 9:08pm
Lets talk about uniforms
The way I see it we need at least 3 uniforms:

Dress Uniforms: These should be fairly flashy and distinct- as the RM are the premiere militia organization of the Frontier and the uniform should be a stand out. it would also be a skien suit (price as a civilian skien suite)

BDU- likely this is just a camoflaged skien suit with the appropriate pockets for ammo clips

Ship duty "grays": more of a "fatigue" uniform for general duty and work particularly on ship. this uniform is just normal clothes and is little more than a coverall with patches and insignia.

Station Police will likely have an abreviated version of the dress uniform as a duty uniform as they need to be readily recognized. if there is a special alert it would not be unusual to see one or two in their BDU and sporting heavier weapons than normal ie. rifles and such


I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!
Comments:

Shadow Shack's picture
Shadow Shack
January 25, 2011 - 3:25am

You wouldn't happen to recall where I posted those four variants of uniforms I whipped out on Hero Machine...I seem to recall one or two of those made it to your game.


Let's not forget the fourth outfit - the CRM Armored Vacc Suit

I'm not overly fond of Zeb's Guide...nor do I have any qualms stating why. Tongue out

My SF website

jedion357's picture
jedion357
January 26, 2011 - 7:22pm
I spent a ton of time looking for those post but came up dry.

IRRC: all of the stuff you did was camo- which has the benefit of simply change the color scheme for issue in new enviroment.

What will need is a dress uniform; whats your color preference:

Green jacket on Black pants, and gold/yellow trim

Black on black with red trim

All white with any color trim will suggest US Navy so I'd prefer to avoid that (not any slight on the Navy just that the first thing people will say is "They copied the Navy.")

Light blue on gray with dk blue trim

?



I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

Shadow Shack's picture
Shadow Shack
January 26, 2011 - 8:04pm
I couldn't find the stuff online...but I did find some of it on my old discs. I'll have to upload them for commentary. What I currently have is the armored vacc suit, dress, and camo/fatigues. I whipped up a coveralls and standard vacc suit with heromachine after I found them last night. I'll try and get them posted later, I'm heading out for dinner once the wife is finished powdering her nose.
I'm not overly fond of Zeb's Guide...nor do I have any qualms stating why. Tongue out

My SF website

Shadow Shack's picture
Shadow Shack
January 27, 2011 - 6:13pm

Okay here's my HM illustrations ---

Field camouflage (revamped, I used the newer tools available in HeroMachine for this):




Court/dress uniform, slightly revised from my original (w/CRM crest added):


Coveralls/casual duty uniform (new):


Standard vacc suit:


Armored Vacc Suit (same as the original I submitted long ago, the same outfit I used for Grelude. I simply added the CRM logo to it):
I'm not overly fond of Zeb's Guide...nor do I have any qualms stating why. Tongue out

My SF website

jedion357's picture
jedion357
January 27, 2011 - 6:04am
I deffinetly like the gray/green of the camo- seems spot on for Clarion and probably effective in most enviroments on the planet (the extremely active water cycle will ensure to that (no deserts)

I suspect they do have white for polar operations.

looks like gray is a theme in all your uniforms. So that said do we want lt gray on lt gray with read trim for the dress uniform?

anyone else have an opinion?

I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

Shadow Shack's picture
Shadow Shack
January 27, 2011 - 2:31pm
Quote:
looks like gray is a theme in all your uniforms.


The grey-almost-black and drab seemed to look the best. That, and with many operations aboard a ship or station, when there is no power the dark colors would help mask them from view. The only place I'd see a need for brighter colors would be the dress uniform, but by sticking with the same color pattern it stays more...uniform.
I'm not overly fond of Zeb's Guide...nor do I have any qualms stating why. Tongue out

My SF website

jedion357's picture
jedion357
January 27, 2011 - 3:14pm
I would say add a little bit of red trim to the female dress uniform.
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

Will the Stampede's picture
Will the Stampede
January 27, 2011 - 4:41pm
Slacks should be an option for the female dress uniform, and maybe a bit of red piping to the shipsuits. Other than that, excellent designs.


" 'Beware the Beast, Man, for he is the Devil's pawn. Alone among God's primates, he kills for sport, for lust, for greed. Yea, he will murder his brother to possess his brother's land. Let him not breed in great numbers, for he will make a desert of his home and yours. Shun him; drive him back into his jungle lair, for he is the harbinger of death."

Anonymous's picture
w00t (not verified)
January 27, 2011 - 4:58pm
I would use a simpler RM logo that fits the clothes scheme. 
Nice images.

Will the Stampede's picture
Will the Stampede
January 27, 2011 - 5:05pm
Actually, the logo would probably be smaller and outlined in the same color thread as the uniforms for the ship suits, BDUs, and the vacc suits.

On the dress uniform, the CRM logo would be a pin over the left breast.
" 'Beware the Beast, Man, for he is the Devil's pawn. Alone among God's primates, he kills for sport, for lust, for greed. Yea, he will murder his brother to possess his brother's land. Let him not breed in great numbers, for he will make a desert of his home and yours. Shun him; drive him back into his jungle lair, for he is the harbinger of death."

Shadow Shack's picture
Shadow Shack
January 27, 2011 - 5:14pm

Slacks are definitely an option, I merely wanted to illustrate the two different uniforms rather than the same one on both models. I'm up in the air over what to do with the dress though, red pipe on the dress (looks out of place), red dress (eh, neutral on that one), or red piping on the stocking? I'm leaning toward the red striped stocking.


I like the idea of red piping on the coveralls.

I'm not overly fond of Zeb's Guide...nor do I have any qualms stating why. Tongue out

My SF website

Will the Stampede's picture
Will the Stampede
January 27, 2011 - 5:24pm
Thin red piping along the skirt sides would be best. The striped stocking would detract from the impression a dress uniform is supposed to convey, IMO.
" 'Beware the Beast, Man, for he is the Devil's pawn. Alone among God's primates, he kills for sport, for lust, for greed. Yea, he will murder his brother to possess his brother's land. Let him not breed in great numbers, for he will make a desert of his home and yours. Shun him; drive him back into his jungle lair, for he is the harbinger of death."

Shadow Shack's picture
Shadow Shack
January 27, 2011 - 5:29pm
HM doesn't offer a thin stripe, but I'll see what I can bang out with MS Paint.
I'm not overly fond of Zeb's Guide...nor do I have any qualms stating why. Tongue out

My SF website

jedion357's picture
jedion357
January 27, 2011 - 5:33pm
Red piping and the sash work for me or epalets with piping, if it can be done.
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

Shadow Shack's picture
Shadow Shack
January 27, 2011 - 6:15pm
Revised coveralls:


Revised court/dress:
I'm not overly fond of Zeb's Guide...nor do I have any qualms stating why. Tongue out

My SF website

jedion357's picture
jedion357
January 27, 2011 - 6:26pm
I'm liking it shadow and the greenish boots in the dress uniform look like a pain to maintain against scuffs and marks. thus they become the time honored punishment duty to buff.
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

Will the Stampede's picture
Will the Stampede
January 27, 2011 - 6:57pm
jedion357 wrote:
I'm liking it shadow and the greenish boots in the dress uniform look like a pain to maintain against scuffs and marks. thus they become the time honored punishment duty to buff.

Never thought of it like that, Jedi, but it works.

The revisions are spot on, Shadow.
" 'Beware the Beast, Man, for he is the Devil's pawn. Alone among God's primates, he kills for sport, for lust, for greed. Yea, he will murder his brother to possess his brother's land. Let him not breed in great numbers, for he will make a desert of his home and yours. Shun him; drive him back into his jungle lair, for he is the harbinger of death."

jedion357's picture
jedion357
January 27, 2011 - 8:04pm
Will the Stampede wrote:
jedion357 wrote:
I'm liking it shadow and the greenish boots in the dress uniform look like a pain to maintain against scuffs and marks. thus they become the time honored punishment duty to buff.

Never thought of it like that, Jedi, but it works.

The revisions are spot on, Shadow.

The minute I saw them I flashed back to a 3 Musketeers Cartoon where Dartangion was put to work polishing like 50 boots.
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

Malcadon's picture
Malcadon
January 29, 2011 - 4:49pm
Interesting. I always thought their colors where black and light green, like their ship counters.

Shadow Shack's picture
Shadow Shack
January 30, 2011 - 3:34am
The non-drab greens against black just looked a little too comical...seriously, open up any of those images in MS paint and add their greens.
I'm not overly fond of Zeb's Guide...nor do I have any qualms stating why. Tongue out

My SF website

rattraveller's picture
rattraveller
February 11, 2011 - 2:12pm
ok again I am calling for cheaper uniforms. With a roster of only 300 and they are of all four major races and probably some of the minor ones too they could not hope to stock alot of uniforms. They would use some basic utility uniform for work, a duty uniform for desk and station patrols and when they need some formal they just add something to the duty uniform like a award sash or a cap and fancy hat.

The key here is these guys are spacers who do not have alot of room for a wide range of clothing. They aint on the Enterprise with replicators. They probably have a couple of Vrusk who make all the uniforms for the whole Corp.
Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go?

Shadow Shack's picture
Shadow Shack
February 12, 2011 - 2:48am

Uniform cost is no object. Clarion has a slew of taxes, low ones at that (thanks to their import tarrif) but a slew nonetheless --- they can afford to deck out their 300 person militia in a respectable manner Wink

As for uniform upkeep/tailoring etc, I would say that there is a civilian support group for that. No need to pull the minimal staff that is entrusted with keeping the peace in space for "meager" duties like inventory of uniforms or cleaning garbage cans (although it could be disciplinary punishment to help those that do LOL).

Now for the various types of uniforms --- the vacc suits (both armored and standard) would be stowed on the ship so it's a non-issue. A formal dress uniform wouldn't be something they need to keep with them while on ship duty, unless they're escorting an emmisary or such...for the most part that uniform will hang in their quarters closet on Clarion Station's residential deck. All they'd really need while serving on their respective scout or frigate is their issued coveralls (which would be a civilian skeinsuit for all intensive purposes) that can be worn under the vacc suit.

But I might question the need for camouflage fatigues...do we really need that one? The CRM is a space unit, operating either onboard the militia ships or Clarion Station. With no flora & fauna in such environments, I don't see the need for it.

I'm not overly fond of Zeb's Guide...nor do I have any qualms stating why. Tongue out

My SF website

jedion357's picture
jedion357
February 12, 2011 - 6:05am
Its a monarchy and parades and flash go with that so I would think you need an appropriate dress uniform.

ship duty: coverall just makes sense

Station police duty- since they are interacting with the public it's the dress uniform without fancy sashes or a working mans version of the dress uniform; maybe an armband with a symbol denoting police.

camo? well yes they have that too- the RM will be boots on the ground in an emergency long before the RG can mobilize. its very likely that the most common camo for the Clarion environment is issued- though not normally used for day to day use. Other camos are available at the quartermaster at need.

Now the clothe cap (on the dress uniform) is not the most sensible thing for 0g but the RM keeps it out of tradition.
the uniform would likely have epalets to roll the hat and stuff it in for 0g.

I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

Shadow Shack's picture
Shadow Shack
February 12, 2011 - 2:59pm
jedion357 wrote:
Station police duty- since they are interacting with the public it's the dress uniform without fancy sashes or a working mans version of the dress uniform; maybe an armband with a symbol denoting police.

Now the clothe cap (on the dress uniform) is not the most sensible thing for 0g but the RM keeps it out of tradition.
the uniform would likely have epalets to roll the hat and stuff it in for 0g.


Again, which is why the uniform would be primarily worn during station duty. Both that and "parade duty" entail gravity. The only time I would see this uniform used during ship duty is the aforementioned escort missions for royalty or such.

Quote:
the RM will be boots on the ground in an emergency long before the RG can mobilize.


Speaking purely from the point of debate --- looking at every angle:

The Royal Guard "has never been beaten in a land battle". I would think that comes into play from decent repsonse times, I don't see a land based militant unit taking longer to reach an objective than one based on an orbital space station, at least not with the tools available in SF...at best either could reach an objective in the same time frame. That, and 300 Royal Marines versus tens of thousands of Royal Guards, if something broke out on the surface would they really risk losing what few numbers they have and thereby leaving their space forces vulnerable? It just seems like we're asking the Coast Guard to perform Army work..."Okay men, as soon as this cutter drops anchor we'll be looking for those enemy tanks!" They find the scores of enemy tanks, get slaughtered by the scores of enemy tanks, and the cutter is left sitting helpless docked at shore.

What I might digest here is lower enlisted ranks performing land duties alongside the Guard, perhaps learning (or refreshing) valuable simulation tactics with the Guard...in which case they would have a camo-issue uniform. This would be applicable to their boarding maneuvers later. But beyond that I really don't see why a Royal Marine would be on the surface outside of shore leave or parade duty.
I'm not overly fond of Zeb's Guide...nor do I have any qualms stating why. Tongue out

My SF website

jedion357's picture
jedion357
February 12, 2011 - 5:38pm
The issue of boots on the ground in an emergency is more, What can respond right now? Osprey is 6 hours away.

RM dont have to have camo I just dont see it being overlooked- just in case.
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

Shadow Shack's picture
Shadow Shack
February 13, 2011 - 1:38am
Presuming the government of Clarion permits atomic driven craft to land...

Granted the possibility of domed cities is high (I think this was discussed elsewhere in the project?) due to constant rain...I mean who really wants to live like that LOL but it's still a life supporting atmosphere that the government would most likely want to protect.

Even so, say the Osprey is "closest" in terms of arrival time and the govt. doesn't mind atomic landings. The Osprey lands and deploy her boarding party of...six to nine. The pilot, astrogator, and engineer will be useless for ground combat, and if they do opt for such duty, and get whacked...now the Osprey is permanently grounded until another crew can get to her...all the while the boarding party of six to nine must hold it against whatever invasion force they're responding to. Long story made short --- if a sathar landing party made it to the surface, an assault scout is the last thing you'd want to dispatch to be the first to encounter them. Their small boarding party will make it easy pickings for the invaders, and they wouldn't even need a Maxxer Tabbe.
 
If anything, such a deployment would only serve as an advanced scouting party at best, with hopes that they don't get discovered. If they do get discovered, the enemy will have little dificulty overtaking the small crew and will only end up with a warship in their possession when it's all said and done. Tactically, I just don't see where it becomes advantageous to get the RM there first. Simply put, they're better served staying in space and preventing any further landing parties.

With all that said, I do see possible needs for a camo uniform, just not one that would be used very often that the RM members would have to constantly have it available. It seems more of an "issue when needed" affair rather than "issued on day one and take good care of it for the rest of your life".

That, and a holo-screen with camo loop takes up less space Wink
I'm not overly fond of Zeb's Guide...nor do I have any qualms stating why. Tongue out

My SF website

Anonymous's picture
w00t (not verified)
February 13, 2011 - 11:02am
Why not have huge containment areas, ship yards that allows atomic drives to land and tqke off? Anyway no reason we can't have ships use scramjet or something for atmo flight.

Shadow Shack's picture
Shadow Shack
February 13, 2011 - 3:41pm
I honestly don't have a problem with the scout landing, I just brought that popular SF.us point out for the sake of debate.

I'm just searching for a tactical reason why it would need to land...and as such why the crew would need fatigues afterwards when it does. The point I was making is the Royal Guard has an inpeccable record on the ground and the Royal Marines have an impeccable record in space, why would either need to cross-perform? Moreso when one group has extremely limited numbers and only risks losing the craft if they cross-perform?

Equivilently, the US Navy transports the US Marines to foreign lands to fight, but the Navy crew does not joint he Marines in the battle...the captain and officers all the way down to the cook remain aboard the Navy vessel. With exception to the Navy SEALs (which the Royal Marines have no equivilent of, possibly save for their boarding parties but even that is a stretch), no Navy personnel hits the ground running.

The only thing I can arrive at is having the RM ship transport a small detachment of off duty RG members from the station to the ground for immediate deployment, and once again I don't see the need for the ship crew to assist after that is accomplished. Simply put, unless the Crown orders a very special mission, I just don't see the need for any CMS craft to land and deploy its crew into Clarion's wilderness. As such, I don't see the need for said crewmembers to be constantly toting around a set of fatigues...it just seems more of a special issue uniform to me than a regular issue item. If anything, like the formal dress uniform I mentioned, it would spend most of its life hanging in their quarters closets on Clarion Station (and get less use as such).

But I'm certainly open to ideas regarding why they would need it, at least beyond "being the first to get there" (which I see as a risky maneuver that can easily result in losing the ship - 12 people from a scout simply won't fare well against an intruding army).
I'm not overly fond of Zeb's Guide...nor do I have any qualms stating why. Tongue out

My SF website