Law & Order, Vursk Corrections

jedion357's picture
February 2, 2009 - 8:39pm
In light of how ants in a hive will drag dead or injured ants back to a hive for use as food would we not think that the vursk might not also have as a tenent of their legal system that the good of the hive is paramount.
To that end brain wipes and reprograming being used for severe "felony" crimes for the good of the hive. Theres is one appeal and after that brain wipe.

This certainly makes room for some fun with a PC back ground.

Under this system there will be very little capitol punishment- maybe only used in the case of a repeat brain wipe.

I could see hyptnosis playing a large roll in the rehab of criminals. as well as lot of community service.

Other options for serious criminals would enrolement in the military, exploration expiditions, or new colony start ups.
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

Gargoyle2k7's picture
February 7, 2009 - 11:34am
Oh, yes, I wholly agree.  Vrusk are all about "the needs of the many", and criminal rehabilitation, using a variety of "reprogramming" techniques.  Also, with the corporate-mercantile tradition, there would be very complex laws governing trade and business.  Vrusk reprogramming kind of puts a new spin on the "Dark Side of the Moon" adventure...
Long live the Frontier!

jedion357's picture
February 7, 2009 - 2:23pm
have to reread that one- only skimmed it when I got it of ebay last year.
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

Imperial Lord's picture
Imperial Lord
February 8, 2009 - 8:08pm
Whoa whoa whoa!

Hive?  The Vrusk hive is long gone.  They are pacifistic beings now who have spread around the Known Galaxy through their corporations.

I would say that they value life, and their brains, most highly.

jedion357's picture
February 8, 2009 - 10:47pm
I would think that where they've been impacts where they are now and while they may not have a hive in the classic sense the would retain and use the word still within their language and thought processes. And though they may have thrown off the hive mentality allowing for individualism I would think that they still have a strong affinity for the Hive concept which instills a collective sense of connectedness and obligation to each other and their society.The hive concept would even translate to other races as its not unheard of for symbiotic relationships to exist in nature and the vursk would easily transfer the idea of a symbiotic relationship to the other 3 races viewing the collective frontier as a hive.

I only intended to draw a parallel between ants and vursk and extrapolate how that could impact crime and punishment.

personally I view the rise of individualism among the vursk beginning with a successful general who succeeded in dominating the other hive so that his hive became the universal world hive and though he didn't have breeding access to the queen he decided he should so he arranged for a pupae to be fed royal jelly to cause it to jestate as a queen. This would constitute a breaking of the societal pact and when learned about their is a revolution the old queen cries for his head but his power base is to strong and he gets away with having his own queen. other vursk begin to say, "WHy not me, as well?"
A societal revolution ensues where more and more vursk are born to be warrior caste and queens and family units develope of 1 queen and 1 warrior which take on the name hive. less and less do you get drones and workers though some large families breed them but eventually you vursk intellectuals put forth the idea that everyone should be equal. and the practice eventually diminishes to the point of being little more than a dirty secret among the rich and famous.

Hive becomes the term to describe a vursk family unit, vursk society as a whole, the vursk home world, each vursk colony, and the collective frontier society including the other 3 major races.

It hasn't gone away its usage just evolved and it has a legacy and impact on present day vursk thinking and practice.

Despite being individuals with free choice the vursk often feel great obligation to their particular hive; beit family, business, profession, political institution, planet, or cadre.
The legacy of evolving from a hive society has a long reach impacting many aspects of vursk society including crime and punishment- with a philosophical emphasis on criminals are dealt with in a manner that is best for the 'hive': in this case society.

I hope that clears up my thinking on the hive. I would agree it no longer exists as it did but it still lingers in vursk thinking and thought practice.

Apples dont fall far from their tree.
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

Imperial Lord's picture
Imperial Lord
February 9, 2009 - 2:00pm

I understand where you are coming from, Jedion.

However, the word "hive" implies a fascist "Borgian" collectivism that is an inappropriate monniker for Vrusk society.  I agree with you that they are probably more collectivist than the other Races.  Having said that, their laws probably devolve much from Corporate rules and regulations, as I would imagine most crimes would be committed by the Vrusk in the context of their corporate jobs, since they hold them in such high esteem.

I would say that Vrusk law has parallels to Yazirian Clan law, but with less brutality and, quite frankly, a lot more practical sense.  Violent crimes would be referred to a Criminal Court similar to our own.  Other crimes would actually be covered in Corporate by-laws.  Interstellar Law would be the exception to this of course.

I would have to differ with you on the mind control as well.  While it might make things interesting from a gaming perspective, the idea of sinister re-programming under control of the State would not digest well with Vrusk sensitivities.  I would imagine that Vrusk that find themselves unable to cope with Vrusk values, traditions, and societal norms would move away from the Vrusk planets to the mixed-race planets.

thespiritcoyote's picture
May 21, 2011 - 3:34am

resuscitates the topic, briefly ... I have no problem with leftover biological imperatives of the hive mentality, and traditions of the sacred hivemind philosophy, influencing the "... driven by a desire for wealth, power, success, and happiness." in Vrusk behavior, and socio-politics.

... and I was looking for a place to put this ...

~ "... Byzantine laws regulate business between the myriad Vrusk companies; few other than the Vrusk can grasp them ..."

Vrusk Law is essentially a continuation of Ancient Royal Law with Natural law influence, however, this is not to doubt its later influence on the practice of Mutuality Realism, or Collectivist Comonality jurisprudence. Vrusk Law has effectively devolved into two spheres, Conglomerate Law and Hive Law.

"We used to serve House Ektar. Now you can call us -- I mean, me -- Zivik."

The Zunai'zodo Codex
a) The canons ratifying the doctrinal decisions of the first six Economical Councils, along with the teachings of the Queen of the Zdatek Ktsi'wdleontirr Hivemind.

b) The canons specifying the obligations of the administration management.

c) The canons referring to the drones.

d)The canons referring to the hive-citizen. The influence of these canons carried on in the future and they were extensively annotated by Arri'zamon, Bal'la'rrhs and Shong'ztenoz, the three great conglomerate jurists of the Frontier.

The Ecloga
 referring to both the civil and criminal law, constituted, as was declared in the title a "rectification of the Nai'ni Tsuj (the first Nai'rruazii Empress) legislation towards a more philanthropic version". The membership of the editing committee is not known, but its primary mission, however, was, on the one hand, to modify those dispositions not in step with the times and, on the other, to provide judges with a concise legal handbook to help them dispense justice properly.
The dispositions of "Ecloga", influenced by the Hive Prosperity spirit, as well as by the Mutuality Positivism law, protected and supported the institution of marriage, increased the rights of husbands, natural-drones, and legal children, and introduced the equality of all citizens before the law.
The penalties of amputation and blindness, not in step, of course, with the Mutuality character of the enactment, were introduced, most likely, due to the customs of the Ts'aezai, reflecting the Royal Hivemind concept in this period of changes.

The Frontier Laws
It is a private collection, continuously enriched, and refers to specific cases relevant to rural property within the framework of the Frontier rural "community".

The Spacer's Laws

Written probably between 600 and 800 years ago, it is a collection of celestime law regulations divided into three parts. The first part refers to the ratification of the "Naval Law" by the Hive Empresses. The second specifies the participation of the crew in celestime profits and the regulations valid on the ship, while the third and largest refers to celestime law, as for example to the apportionment of responsibility in case of theft or damage to the cargo or the ship. The "Naval Law" was included in the Akihlisab of Iv'Oel the Wise as a complement to scroll 35.

I think something like that could go in a SFman, no?

Oh humans!! Innocent We discover a galactic community filled with multiple species of aliens, and the first thing we think about is "how can we have sex with them?".
~ anymoose, somewhere on the net...

if you square a square it becomes a cube...
if you square a cube does it become an octoid?

Imperial Lord's picture
Imperial Lord
May 20, 2011 - 4:56pm
I like some of your angles, coyote, but again - too much Hive.

The Vrusk are not ashamed of their Hive past, but they are somewhat embarrassed by it.  It was a system of slavery, war, and barbarity more than anything else, with the natural impulses of Vruskan identity twisted and abused by the Hive elites in terrible ways.

I doubt there was much of a "Hive Codex" at all.  Most of Vrusk society labored and died as little more than slaves. 

Why is your text so small, by the way?  It makes your posts painful to read...

thespiritcoyote's picture
May 21, 2011 - 4:11am
I understand where you are coming from there. But we may be seeing the hive at different extremes...
 I don't see it as a 'Single Hive' that suffered the entirety of antiquity unto embarrassment. I see 'Many Hives' and the practices and living conditions under those Queens and Nobilities being variant and diverse.

  I don't see any more of a 'slavery issue' to contend with in embarrassment or revilement of those ancestors, than that of the Egyptians, Romans, Byzantines, Mongolians, Chinese, Indians, Sumerians, Incas, Mayans, Aztecs, Babylonians, Gaelic, Welsh, Germanic, are given negative sentmentalities among the modern nations of Earth.
  All of these people also lived under a (by modern westernized standards) strict and rigid caste with little to no rights for the 'peasantry slaves'... and yes, a medieval peasant was not a medieval serf (a land owner of no noble entitlement), but much more like a 'nationalized slave' (righted to live on the land, and be done with often, as one would do with any herd animal or wild game, without any recompense, as they were voiceless and accepted that, in return for the protection offered by the titled land-owner... until the Magna Carta established a new precedent, and changed the cultural foundations, over a long period of time) ... Rome had quite a lot of 'barbaric' practices that were inflicted upon those who were in the caste of 'traded slaves' and the Roman Law is still the foundation upon much of the western law... Chinese and India were historically much more severe and strict in their feudal era than any European monarch, yet they still hold to the ancient law as a foundation to their modern legal consensus... 

  I don't see the logical minded Vrusk being so embarrassed as to discount completely the 'rules of proper social behavior' and 'resource management and mutual comunity interest' that Hive Law would represent to a modern Vrusk... or find it necessary, to completely plow-under a once much beloved and revered Empress, Queen, or King en'Dominante that had a prosperous Dynasty over many successful and well maintained hives.
  Modern Vrusk government may be far removed from the 'hive mentality' and revile such practice and philosophies socially, (but there are likely; genetic throwbacks, pilgrim hivers, some so-called 'collectivist compounds', and 'social experiment outposts' that are all Hive-like in some modern form, some sanctioned by a government charter, some considered a threat to Vrusk 'peace(-of-mind)' in society.), but that doesn't require or imply that they are even embarrassed by their history as a whole, and could as easily as any modern revisionist on Earth, pick and choose what to emphasise in the 'public conciousnes' as a particular view of some ancient culture, and thus the Hive Codex of some 'Enlightened' Ancient Hive is the basis for the Zunai'zodo Codex referenced, but also not the only source of that codex in it's modern form (as also mentioned).

  As far as 'Hive' as a term in common use among Vrusk, as a Concept in some form, within their own language, I see no embarrassment necessary either. The Terms Hive are likely rooted in the same terms used for community, family, and society, but different enough that Hive is a better translation into English. Further, the terms hivemind and Hive-mind likely have particular significance to the Vrusk, as they are biologicaly inclined to hiveminded social interaction and natural impulses (this is illustrated in the quote, that I picked directly from a Vrusk description, published by TSR), and may have had a heightened mystical link to the ancient Hive-Queens control, and some esoterical connection to the en'Dominante (yeah I made this up, that are now associated metaphoricly, with the modern Conglomerate Entrepreneurial Operator, in some Vrusk literature), of their own prehistoric legend. (It would be an interesting thing to see the Vrusk comparison, of their own 'King Arther in Charlotte's Web' tale... translations to English, would never do the legend justice, for certain... but I digress...)

  There were those of the Early American plebes, who would insist on calling Washington His Highness, even to his face, out of respect for his station, even to his insistence that they not, and their own political leanings away from monarchic rule.
  I consider 'Your Excelencey' is a term of respect to a superior, and 'Hive' a term of defined social-organization. As I see it, and not to infer that they are 'hive minded' by following such precepts, that were encoded by (a few) enlightened individual Vrusks, throughout their Hive-era history, and preserved for posterity, and modern Giurisprudenza.
  The entirety of the suggested legal history I gave, was purely for the sake of Vrusk Academia Juris Antiques.
  Modern Vrusk Law is most likely chartered by the colonial constituents at the colony's founding, and ratified from the larger collection of Giurisprudenza, at some Academia Juris Sinica, probably the most famous being on Kdikit (Madderly's Star), and Kawdl-Kit (K'tsa-Kar), and possibly Terledrom (Fromeltar), and further influenced by research into the legal structures, and jurisprudence archives, of co-habitation colonies in the UPF.

Innocent... pardon my diatribe of verbosity, and formal vernacular... its a legal-academics and social-science thing... Sealed

In any case, it is just a suggestion, to fill out their overall social identity, in that historical view, and expound upon the Cultural Vrusk, specifically where it relates to the Law and Social Order.

Overall, I don't outright disagree with your statements, but thought some clarification might be necessary to alleviate a few misunderstandings about what I had written, that seemed to have made those little details less apparent. Thank you for considering my attempt worth nit-picking.

... I make parts of the text smaller to keep the page space down on long posts, mark tangentals that may be overlooked, or simply format for everyone's benefit in the same maner I see and apreaciate from many other posters, pardon the inconvenience this may cause, I frequently have to cut&paste to a notepad to read some posts myself, but still apreaciate some formating ... 
Oh humans!! Innocent We discover a galactic community filled with multiple species of aliens, and the first thing we think about is "how can we have sex with them?".
~ anymoose, somewhere on the net...

if you square a square it becomes a cube...
if you square a cube does it become an octoid?