Karxan March 24, 2012 - 11:15pm | I was looking for pictuers for the next issues of SFman and found this link to something called Dark Frontiers. I had never seen this before. Looks like it is from around '08 timeframe. If this is anyones post I would like to give credit to them. I thought it was an interesting twist on the SF history. Also it goes along with the discussion about how the races get along. I have included the link as well as the text here. http://www.feebleman.com/pages/rpg/dfindx.html#06
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Shadow Shack March 25, 2012 - 6:54am | As one who hosts a darker Frontier campaign myself --- my game has an upstart dictator that takes over, forcing the last shreds of the UPF into hiding...and the Malthar returns to usurp the new order as an ally to the UPF loyalists --- I like it. I just have to wonder if he rewrote the planetary descriptions, seeing as how in canon there are numerous mixed population worlds...each one would be amajor ground-zeero in such a setting. The other issue I see would be players would all be forced into using one of the core four races, unless they actually enjoyed betrayal and killing each other etc. |
Deryn_Rys March 25, 2012 - 7:49am | Boy, and I was told my version of the SF timeline was a bit dark. While I agree that people can make the SF into whever they desire, I think that the game should never become all gloom and doom, or eventually players will tire of playing in that kind of situation. A situation where there is little or no cooperation from the four races might make for an interesting start of a campaign I would eventually have the four races become allies (begrudgingly at first) perhaps in order to survive against the Sathar menace but that's because to me the inherent cooperation of the four allied races, and the UPF are two things that make Star Frontiers what it is During the late 80's and early 90's we as a society were going through a period of disillusinment about many things in our society, and our entertainments likewise reflected our collective feelings, but games like Star Frontiers with it's high adventure, and hopeful future serve as a kind of salve against the depression most of us were feeling from the negativity of our day to day existance. This is why I have always had a soft spot for this game in my heart. "Hey guys I wonder what this does"-Famous last words "Hey guys, I think it's friendly." -Famous last words "You go on ahead, I'll catch up." -Famous last words "Did you here that?" -Famous last words |
Malcadon March 25, 2012 - 10:07am | Looks interesting. I cant wait to see more of this. |
rattraveller March 25, 2012 - 10:10am | [/quote] During the late 80's and early 90's we as a society were going through a period of disillusinment about many things in our society, and our entertainments likewise reflected our collective feelings, [/quote] So President Reagan restarting the economy, the Berlin Wall falling down and the end of the Soviet Empire, the victory of Desert Storm and the One and Only Superpower era, the Stock Market breaking 10,000 is your idea of "dark times" and "disillusionment"? So what constitutes good times? Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go? |
Malcadon March 25, 2012 - 8:06pm | So President Reagan restarting the economy, the Berlin Wall falling down and the end of the Soviet Empire, the victory of Desert Storm and the One and Only Superpower era, the Stock Market breaking 10,000 is your idea of "dark times" and "disillusionment"? So what constitutes good times? Wait, didn't Reagan crashed the economy with his policies after the economic high of the late '70s, inflated the deficit three-fold, kicked the doomsday forward with the Star Wars Program and arms build-up, hired (then fired) a dangerous and incompetent hack to run the EPA, let loose the mentally-ill on the streets, and introduced crack-cocaine to the street with secret deals with South American drug lords and a group who would later hit us on 9-11? I remember much of it, growing-up in what could be called "the urinal of trickle-down economics." |
AZ_GAMER March 25, 2012 - 10:51pm | Reagan was Awesome! True no one is perfect but he is a saint compared to B.O. |
Malcadon March 26, 2012 - 1:02am | Reagan was OK. He helped knocked-down the iron curtain, but beyond that he failed at everything else. Obama is doing fine considering what he inherited, and I doubt Reagan could deal with this mess any more efficiently. There is a lot that is said about Obama, but much of it is really stupid: ranting demagogy and baseless conspiracy theories. Hell, the issue that his political opponents have with him - namely mandated healthcare - was their idea to begin with! His real problem in that he could benefit from a sturdy spine, and the policies he initiates could be more inline with his progressive rhetoric. |
Shadow Shack March 26, 2012 - 1:32am | The ultimate problem with this current administration is they took this road to hell and kept travelling down it without changing course. Travelling is an understatement, they cut the brake lines and jammed the accelerator pedal. I just have to wonder if the next President will be permitted to fall back on the same mamby pamby "I inherited it" excuse. Frankly I'm tired of the excuses and finger pointing, we truly do need some change and the past three years simply hasn't offered any. |
jedion357 March 26, 2012 - 5:15am | .... and I doubt Reagan could deal with this mess any more efficiently. Perhaps Reagan was a one trick pony with his belief that communism was a great evil and it was his mission to take it down, However, that overlooks the fact that he was called, "The Great Communicator" and if Reagan was alive now and President I think he would bring this asset to bear, that he would size up the situation, focus on a solution that seems best to him and then communicate his vision to the American people and get everyone moving in the same direction on it. Whether Congress wanted to go along or not, they would have to because Reagan was so good at reaching the man in the street with his vision. So we can piss about trinkle down ecomonics and what Reagan actually accomplished; the simple fact is that he had a powerful ability that he wielded expertly and if you play the what if game you have to concede that to him because that one ability in any situation is going to succeed at something. So yeah Reagan would beat the hell out of what we got now no matter what sort of a situation he was handed. Please, making excuses for Obama along the lines of, "Well, the situation he got stuck with.... and if he hadn't been stuck with that...." sorry but that strikes me as whining and too bad for Obama, he asked for the job so suck it up and get it done or step aside. Sorry to say this and rant but listening to, "Well, Obama would be a good president except for the F%$#ed up situation he inherited" Sounds like "Well I would have been a track star if the other team's members hadn't been so fast," Or "Well my business wouldn't have failed if there hadn't been competition" If you have to make excuses just to say he's great, just in an impossible situation then anyone could be president as long as everything goes right- but everything doesn't go right because "stuff" happens. If he needs everything to go right to shine then he's the wrong man for the job. The sad fact is that he's done plenty and what he's done hasn't helped because the decisions behind those actions are based on sociological ideology. So I'll give you that he's in a sucky situation but I also got to call this one the way I see it: he pretty sucky himself as well. And what was that with the Nobel Peace Prize? He hadn't done anything yet and they give him that prize? Why? for doing nothing? Or for being the first black President? So now we hand out prizes for the color of your skin? He's a gold star because you're black. No wonder everyone is making excuses for him. "Leave the poor black president alone, he got stuck with a sucky situation, its not his fault." Give me a break. Final note: many other Presidents were handed sucky situations and if nothing else rose to the challenge and shined in the darkness- no one has to makes excuses for them, if fact historians practically gush over how they were the "right man for the job at the right time." No Excuses. I'm thinking Obama needs to be a "one and done" like Jimmy Carter. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
w00t (not verified) March 26, 2012 - 7:11am | The shroud of the dark side has fallen on sf.us Survive it, we will. |
Shadow Shack March 26, 2012 - 1:47pm | Final note: many other Presidents were handed sucky situations Kind of like the one who came in after... and if nothing else rose to the challenge and shined in the darkness- no one has to makes excuses for them, if fact historians practically gush over how they were the "right man for the job at the right time." No Excuses. I'm thinking Obama needs to be a "one and done" like Jimmy Carter. |
AZ_GAMER March 26, 2012 - 8:34pm | (Sorry it didnt quote Malcadon's statement) |
rattraveller March 26, 2012 - 8:20pm | Thanks for telling me that, now I can stop paying Medicare. Wait I can't? Well at least I don't have pay the government for a retirement plan. So glad the government let's me take care of my own social security. Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go? |
AZ_GAMER March 26, 2012 - 8:37pm | I think the idea of incorporating more of the dystopian society of blade runner and Aliens is a good idea. Though there is room enough in the frontier for both the sterlile prosperous benevolent society of Trek and the grundy visceral dystopia of blade runner. Both have their place and use in the Star Frontiers setting. |
jedion357 March 27, 2012 - 5:16am |
I would of course concede to you the the possibility of doing a trek like thing with the Frontier, but for myself the mere presence of Mega corps automatically makes an association with Blade Runner grit. Not as bad as shadowrun, but somewhere in the middle between Trek and Shadowrun. Total grit I find unappealing and the older I get the more I find Trek a little juvenile in its outlook (though I loved the last movie with kirk getting his face bashed in throughout the whole movie- seemed like that movie introduce just enough grit to flavor Trek for me). I think the idea of incorporating more of the dystopian society of blade runner and Aliens is a good idea. Though there is room enough in the frontier for both the sterlile prosperous benevolent society of Trek and the grundy visceral dystopia of blade runner. Both have their place and use in the Star Frontiers setting. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
jedion357 March 27, 2012 - 5:54am | well said jedion Actually I appreciated your analysis on the health care bill but since I live in MA I've already gone through the stages of ranting and reached the stage of resignation by the time Obama was ramming the national health care bill through. Seeing as how I could see the writing on the wall I simply went out and bought some vaseline, figuring that if I was going to get screwed like that I might as well lubricate myself but somehow that didn't make Obama's health care initiative any more pallatable or take the roughness out of the screwing either. I whole heartily agree with you about the next election though. By the way yesterday if you put www.communist.com in your browser it redirected you to the Obama biden re-election website but today it doesn't. I had a good laugh yesterday when I saw that but somehow today I feel a chill like you get when you feel that someone is watching you. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
rattraveller March 27, 2012 - 5:48am | One part of dystopian future seems to be a government out of control. (V for Vendetta, Hunger Games, 1984, etc...) So just how much total control does a government have to have to be considered dysfunctional? Is the Family of One on Hentz dystopian? Since there is a rebellious group against the monarchy on Clarion (Gollywog) so are they considered dystopian. Yes I understand I may be using the word dystopian wrong but go with it. Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go? |
AZ_GAMER March 27, 2012 - 4:19pm | I use to play the Fasa Star Trek in my last year of High School and my game group did have mega corps present in the setting and I seem to remember reading something about them in a Fasa supplement for the game. That federation outpost in the last movie was pretty gritty, I think they were aiming for a lot more gritty in the last movie. But its kind of like Port Loren, A large clean (relatively clean), mega city with lots of interaction and interstellar travel. In trek series enterprise their were corporations running cargo and conducitng mining enterprises that were outside the government. In fact one such industry actually ended up high jacking a major near object deflector array in order to put forward their political agenda. Private news and media organizations are represented. I think, that because the story revovles so heavily around star fleet that we don't get a good look at the federations infa-structure and under belly. While its true that in the Trek universe money is obsolete in the federation but the exchange of goods and services still occur and that would mean companies and coorporations. While they have stated that they have elimated currancy they never said that they elimated all forms of exchange. Outside the federation the crew of enterprise often had to trade and barter goods and technology for things they needed. So while the basic needs of food, shelter, and essentials are provided by replicator technolgy and poverty / currency no longer exist there still would be an economy. Jean Luc Piccard described it in first contact when he said "the economics of the 24th century are somewhat different from your time" (paraphrased) |
jedion357 March 27, 2012 - 8:13pm | Perception is everything; I just percieve Trek that way and of course Kirk was the original Boy Scout, you know the type, the one that would sneak out of summer camp at night to circumnavigate the lake to visit the Girl Scout camp on the other side. BTW- I loved the fact that Kirk doesn't get with the object of his desire in the new movie but give Abrams a thumbs up for featuring the green chick. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
Inigo Montoya March 28, 2012 - 7:24am | I love a grittier SF. I never much cared for Star Trek because of it sanitary feel. That, and there was no economy. My suspension of disbelief can only handle so much. |
rattraveller March 28, 2012 - 9:51am | Star Trek was kinda weird in that they said there was no economy but obviously sometimes there was. Take the three miners Harry Mudd was trying to hook his women up with. Kirk couldn't just take the crystals from them he brought them up to organize a trade. Bartering is a form of economy ya'know. Also there were the many many planets where the locals had to be paid for things like drinks in a bar. Did they just replicate local currency or wouldn't that be counterfeiting? When DS9 started one of the Commander's first jobs was to get all the merchants to stay and rebuild. If they lived in a moneyless society that would not have been a problem since the Federation would just do it. The point taken is that they didn't so encouragement was required. I could go on but this was always one of the flaws in the show that caused problems for true believers. Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go? |
Inigo Montoya March 28, 2012 - 1:03pm | Yes, I tried to ignore all the contradictions that trade and business created with their socialist Utopia. What I did appreciate about Star Trek was that practically no species got along with each other all the time. That's what I'd like to see a little more of in SF. But it doesn't have to be monumental. We have squabbles with our closest allies. People in the South are still pissed at the Yankee's and their war of northern aggression. I do not think that the makers of SF pictured their setting to be one big Barny the Dancing Dinosaur show. The Core 4 can get along and work together, yet still have episodes of hostility (violent or non-violent). After all, it is a big galaxy. Their are so many worlds in SF that I would suspect that their is not a single racial identity with any species. Not every species will identify with its kindred from across the galaxy before it identifies with its peers from its home world, corporation, ships crew, etc. Humans from one system may despise humans from another particular system and rather spend their time confined in spacer comedian bar during dralasite open mic night rather than associate with those hicks from X world. Imagine how many small shooting wars could erupt over the dumbest things in the far flung corners of the universe. |
jedion357 March 28, 2012 - 3:57pm | Some observations: 1. saying that there is no currency or money is not the same thing as no economy- inconsistencies in Trek invaraiably stem from writers brought in who did not understand Rodenberry's vision or just didn't know what to write so show case a wierd society with no money so they showed defeacto economy. Still that doesn't make Rodenberry's socialist dream/philosophy any more pallatable. Is it that Trek Rubs us the wrong way because we ourselves are political animals and out sociology is just diametric to Rodenberry's? Funny there is a long history of social engineers writing about their beliefs and philosophy under the guise of science fiction to make it more acceptable. - Time Machine stands out as a classic 2. I Hear Inigo's comment on species not getting along and agree with it to a point but I'd like to point out that we have a plethora of anti bug sentiment by humans (something that seems to have not really be reciprocated). Also there is the Yazirian civil war project which could be a good source of conflict though its typically Yaz on Yaz. Dramune Wars could be explored for some more conflict. There is a cult that is sort of the KKK of the Frontier but against the Rim species. The Firsters Classification: criminal organization Intelligence Source: Dragon #109 "Patriots, Terrorists, and Spies" by Kim Eastland This group is a quasi political/terrorist faction that believes all of the Rim races should be sent back to the Rim. Their slogans are such clichés as "The Frontier for the Founders" and "Kick a Rimmer Today." At first this organization was not taken seriously by most inhabitants of the Frontier and became the butt of many a joke, but recent militant activities aimed at members of the Rim races and their businesses have sobered the public to the reality of violent racial prejudice. The Alliance for the Rights of the People is the greatest opponent of the Firster movement. No Firster headquarters is known to exist, as its operations are completely covert. While none of the leaders are known, a rallying figure is known to be a dead vrusk named G'rch B'on. B'on was a member of the Firsters when they were still a tiny cult. He attacked an ifshnit couple one night, but died in the assault. The coroner's findings indicated B'on tripped over his own feet and broke his neck in the fall. The Firsters insist that witnesses (other Firsters, incidentally) saw the ifshnit pick a fight, killing B'on. B'on is now a martyr for the Firster cause and a rallying symbol for anyone who dislikes beings from the Rim. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
Shadow Shack March 28, 2012 - 5:23pm | Look no further than the last page of the AD Expanded rules for racial reactions for an idea of racial heating in the Frontier. Humans have a mild disdain for the bugs just as much as Yazirians do toward the blobs (to cite the common derogatory terms that would be used in Frontier society)...those two being the most notable behind the Sathar relations. Whereas the vrusk only have a minor disdain back at the humans and no preference/tolerance toward the other three, and the dralasites holding nothing against the humans or yazirians while showing preference toward the vrusk. The mammals could just as easily team up against the non-mammals |
Karxan March 28, 2012 - 6:10pm | If you look at SFAD6 you will see a huge conflcit between human and vrusk. It is prety clear there that there is conflict between the two species at the planet there. I got the impression that the UPF though was not filled with that conflict so much. But that would make for a good adventure. Species rivalries in the UPF. |
rattraveller March 28, 2012 - 9:47pm | If the 4 core species did get along extra well we would have more planets with mixed populations. The Firster probably didn't get along with each other too well until the Rimmers showed up. There was a scene in the TV series Alien Nation where a group of humans were protesting letting Alien children into public schools. The MC confronts them by threatening to shoot the Alien kids. At one point he confronts an African American man old enough to remember segregation and shames him into ending the protest. After all everyone hates the new guy. Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go? |