Missile Frigate Discussion

jedion357's picture
jedion357
September 22, 2021 - 4:46pm
Refer to: Missile Frigate.

Thumbs up on the attention to detail that Assault rockets require the ship to have an MR of 4 minimum.

Are Frigates to small to have a torpedo? 

i'd question swapping out a LB for a RB but then the LB shoots each movement phase and I dont think the RB does.

This design is ideal for escorting a carrier and chewing up enemy fighters trying to close with the carrier.

I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!
Comments:

Shadow Shack's picture
Shadow Shack
September 22, 2021 - 6:46pm
Quote:
Are Frigates to small to have a torpedo?

No, torpedoes are a MHS:5 system.

Quote:
i'd question swapping out a LB for a RB but then the LB shoots each movement phase and I dont think the RB does.

The standard frigate has both a LB and RB(x4).

Using the cubic meter total of weapons & dfenses listed for the standard frigate (because there really is no hard rule for designing warships, so this is the only yardstick available) a torpedo launcher and two torpedoes is 115 meters cubed and a rocket battery with four salvoes is 80 cubic meters. Nixing those two heavy space allocating systems opens up lots of room for smaller weapons that are still effective yet more of them.
I'm not overly fond of Zeb's Guide...nor do I have any qualms stating why. Tongue out

My SF website

jedion357's picture
jedion357
September 23, 2021 - 5:17am
This almost looks like a gun boat: 2x LB and 4x PLT all shooting each movement phase That is a lot of laser energy in space. 

Any enemy knowing that he faces this would do well to bring masking screens to the laser fight. 
Or arrange to face this ship in the vicinity of a gas giant with rings which I rule act like a masking screen if a ship shoots through the rings something that happens on my wargaming table since I crafted gas giants with rings from styrfoam half spheres and vinyl records. 

I suppose the AR are enough heavy punch it just seemed like with the name missile frigate that a Torp was warrented. 



I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

jedion357's picture
jedion357
September 23, 2021 - 5:33am
I feel like we should work up and play test some KHs scenarios for this. 

Even placing this in an existing militia (Not the Royal Marines) 
Hentz, Inner Reach, Minotaur, Outer Reach, Truane's Star and Terledrom all field Frigates

I would prefer Minotaur, Truane's Star or Terledrom for this 

however I really feel this shines as a carrier escort for chewing up fighters that try to move on the carrier
which would put us into a Space Fleet story line. So it might work as a element of Taskforce Cassidine or Strike Force Nova which both list carriers in their oder of battle.

perhaps a Recon in Force mission and a patrol group of a Missile frigate and its two accompanying assault scouts are attached to a carrier for a recon beyond the borders of the frontier? probing sathar space on Tom S's expanded frontier map?

or a rescue mission to sathar space?

I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

Shadow Shack's picture
Shadow Shack
September 23, 2021 - 4:54pm
jedion357 wrote:
This almost looks like a gun boat: 2x LB and 4x PLT all shooting each movement phase That is a lot of laser energy in space.

Yep, the obvious tactic here is "broadsiding" a target...get within 40K km range and open fire. Assault rockets and lasers ho!!!

Quote:
Any enemy knowing that he faces this would do well to bring masking screens to the laser fight.

Ture, but the masking screen works both ways...the masked ship won't be able to fire their lasers either. This is why the MS was ditched in favor of more ICMs. Six guns capable of firing both offensively and defensively, the MS would nullify that advantage. Bone up on ICMs instead and dispatch any inbound assault rockets and/or torpedoes.

Quote:
I suppose the AR are enough heavy punch it just seemed like with the name missile frigate that a Torp was warrented.

More so with two AR launchers, that's two AR attacks per offensive phase. Two x 2d10+4 attacks. ;) 

The name is simply what the original creator dubbed it, and that version had torpedoes. 


jedion357 wrote:
I feel like we should work up and play test some KHs scenarios for this. 

Even placing this in an existing militia (Not the Royal Marines) 
Hentz, Inner Reach, Minotaur, Outer Reach, Truane's Star and Terledrom all field Frigates

I would prefer Minotaur, Truane's Star or Terledrom for this

I could see this as a Streel product...reverse engineered and made "better" than the standard frigates. Pale would work great in this capacity.

Quote:
however I really feel this shines as a carrier escort for chewing up fighters that try to move on the carrier
which would put us into a Space Fleet story line. So it might work as a element of Taskforce Cassidine or Strike Force Nova which both list carriers in their oder of battle.

In a post-SW2 arena, yes. The UPF really needs to expand their footprint in the Frontier following SW2, what with all of the worlds that were completely defenseless against a Sathar detachment. I mean 17 worlds where just a lone sathar frigate could park in orbit and claim victory, the UPF really needs to step up their game...or at the very least the open worlds need to get in the game with militias of their own. This is where the missile frigate would shine, it's a low expenditure ship that can spend lengthy endeavors in space patroling and protecting, capable of surviving a battle and still have a wealth of assault rockets and ICMs to spare.
I'm not overly fond of Zeb's Guide...nor do I have any qualms stating why. Tongue out

My SF website

jedion357's picture
jedion357
September 24, 2021 - 6:32am
RE: Space Fleet story line sending a patrol group  to scout for the Sathar SSC site on the southern border

https://expandingfrontier.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/ExtendedFrontierMap-sathar-4500w.png

This would be SSC #1 in system OFS203

Liberty System has been taken and SSC #2 dismantled. 
Naval Intelligence has data indicating that there is a another SSC "South" of the Frontier at the edge of the great expanse (this intel comes from Liberty system). 

The Missile Frigate UPFS Avenger is tasked with scouting several systems looking to identify the SSC's location.

OFS196, OFS197, OFS198, OFS203

Not sure if the Avenger should chart the jump both direction to and from Lynchpin to each of these systems- Space Fleet would want that data.

Perhaps Space fleet has had that data and has deployed stealth drones to observe and collect data in a few of these systems and part of the avenger mission is to collect that data and subspace transmit it back to the Space Fleet base at Lynchpin. 

The analyzing of that data shows a task force of sathar ships spotted by one stealth drone the same task force showed up in Liberty system to supposedly take it back. This allows Space Fleet to chart the probable path from the system the stealth drone was in to Liberty. This in turns sets an area of probability for the SSC that the Avenger must now go and inspect.
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

jedion357's picture
jedion357
September 24, 2021 - 7:11am
Lets say the stealth drone was deployed in OFS196 which means Space Fleet has the jump route to and from there to Lynchpin. The data shows a sathar task force on a heading and accellerating toward either Waller Nexus or Snowball. Since there as a UPF patrol group in Waller Nexus that did not observe the sathar task force and it showed up in Snoboll (where it was destroyed) its presumed that was their route. Priority message from Admiral So and So retasks the Avenger to scout the probable back trail of the task force looking for sathar activity and the rumored SSC that Space Fleet now believes somewhere "South" & "West" of Lynchpin. 

destruction of this SSC would greatly ensure the safety of the Frontier And perhaps secure the border along the Great Expanse. 

First system should be a big fat nothing burger

Next system could have a "lost" colony but the sathar have already been there and turned them all into agents via hypnotism. They are not well armed but outnumber the crew of the Avenger so this could be dangerous. 

How does the crew of the Avenger access the ground? HS 5 ship lands? or they have a shuttle?

Anyhow the "lost colony" sathar turncoats radio the worms (they have to have a subspace radio) or is their a sathar listening post and it has a subspace radio? Go with listening post. 

the adventure here is unravelling that these people have been turned by the sathar. discovering the listening post and realizing they might be in danager because a message was sent. 

Next arc in the campaign: Leaving Las Vegas- the UPFS Avenger takes off or radios its shuttle to return because Energy sensors have picked up a closing force. Sathar Cutter? and a carrier? point of the carrier is for the fighters for the Frigate to shew through 

We might also include HARM ordinance for the ARs that SFman # ? that were designed to be a one shot one kill on fighters.
Inclussion of a cutter means its a tough encounter for the frigate but the CV will hang back as per typical carrier doctrine so that the frigate has a chance to survive.

The Lost colony of sathar agents is really a matter for STar Law to figure out so the crew of the Avenger jsut report what they learned. Repair their damage and rearm to go looking for into another star system.
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

jedion357's picture
jedion357
September 24, 2021 - 7:20am
I dont know why Tom S depicted UPF jumproutes to Gamma Hydrus that might be worth learning here.

The lost colony could be in Gamma Hydrus or OFS198.

So the next targets for a probable SSC would be OFS200, OFS201, OFS203

Potential encounter while scouting: two sathar cutters. or a sathar scout ship of the type seen in FAce of the Enemy, 


Once the SSC is located the route between Lynchpin and OFS 203 must be mapped both directions so that Space Fleet can make a jump and attack but also retreat if the opposition is too much. 

the avenger will participate in the taking of OFS203. but I feel it should be run in 2-3 battles. a feint by the task force to lure the sathar ships out and a fast run by assault scouts and missil frigates against the space station that is the SSC. 

So a small force advances which draws the sathar's larger force out. the small force endeavors to avoid contact with the sathar and they pursue. the raid force comes streaking in to shoot up the SSC. 

dice to see reaction of the sathar force- if they try to return to the SSC the bait force turns and follows, the main UPF force comes in from another heading and the raid force turns to box the sathar force in. big battle. 


I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

jedion357's picture
jedion357
October 11, 2021 - 5:16am
Adventure title: To Pierce the Expanse, original thought was To Probe the Expanse but the word probe has the capacity to trigger the 12 year old in us. 

Noticed that shadow changed the name of the missile frigate to assault frigate? Not yet sold on that wonder what the thinking was? Of course one had to question the name missile frigate when there is no weapon system named missile! 

The spitballed knight hawk encounters are mostly naval action- wonder if this is best run where each player is in command of a ship? More of a wargame campaign with RPG elements?
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

jedion357's picture
jedion357
October 11, 2021 - 8:09am
Another working title: To Brave the Expanse

To Pierce the Expanse 

To Probe The Expanse


UPFS frigate Avenger you are to report to Strike Force Nova at Lynchpin and take up duties as assigned by the COSFN.

Captian, _____________ this is your first frigate command is it not? You showed great resourcefulness as an assault scout commander scouting in the Saurian Sector. Even took out a sathar destroyer, although that was technically against your written orders to remain covert."

Rear Admiral Yatattoto raised his hand as a look of protest flashed across the commander's face, "I know the court of inquiry cleared you and even praised your initiative in taking out a destroyer with just an assault scout, its not actually all that difficult if you know how. I want you to understand that I expect my orders to be followed."

The rear admiral fell silent and the moment drew out before the young commander gave the barest nod.

"Good, while initiative in a commander can be a good thing, those who find situations that tip their orders on their head and manage to still fulfill the spirit of their orders are, in my mind, more to be commended. That said your oders are to scout the systems to the galactic south of Lynchpin looking for evidence of a sathar starship construction center suspected to be in the area. No doubt such a scouting mission requires a certain amount of initiative on the part of its commander, the mission is to locate a target for Strike Force Nova. These new assault or missile frigates, whatever Space Fleet decides to call them, are indeed fast fast like the assault scout you formally commanded and perhaps ideal for a recon in force mission although I suspect their true value is as carrier excorts but that's neither here nor there."

The admiral stopped talking and looked the commander up and down. Hungry, he thought, the commander looked hungry. Good, no doubt he would show the same drive and determination he did in the Saurian Sector.

After a moment the admiral nodded to the captain waiting quietly to the side, "Captain Sorrel, lets have the intel briefing on the commanders area of operation."

As the captain launched into his presentation with holographic displays and a laser pointer the admiral considered the commander further with unblinking eye spots. Would he risk his ship when he was supposed to remain covert in sathar space or would he recklessly engage the enemy and get his ship destroyed. Was it wise sending such an aggressive officer in command of the UPF's latest frigate? A frigate with a lot of promise and potential to tip the scales in fleet engagements with the worms. It's loss could be a set back Space Fleet could ill afford especially with appropriations fight at the Council of Worlds warming up for later this year....




I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

jedion357's picture
jedion357
October 11, 2021 - 8:26am
Note: an assaults scout with its superior ADF and MR can almost always get behind a sathar DD and gut it especially if the assault scout is flown with a wing man. This strategy nullifies the DD's heavy forward fire weapons. The downside is that you will usually lose one HS 3 assault scout for the pirce of destroying a HS6 destroyer. In the brutal math or war that is a good exchange. flying a squadron of two assault scouts and both may just survive the encounter against a DD. 

The new Missile friates are fast but only as fast as a DD. If they can maneuver behind a DD and managed to match its speed and course changes for 20-30 minutes it may just effect the same feat that the vaunted assault scout has been able to perform for decades and with a bigger hull it can absorb more damage than an assault scout and may survive going toe to toe with the sathar destroyer. It is questionable whether a frigate can effectively maneuver behind a destroyer due to the similarity in their handling but it is worth noting that a frigate commander should watch for the opportunity. 

Perhaps the true role for a missile frigate is as a carrier escort where its weapon mix will crew up enemy fighters before they can reach the carrier which relieve the fighter coverage from defending the carrier to make strikes against enemy capitol ships. 
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

Shadow Shack's picture
Shadow Shack
October 11, 2021 - 10:32am
jedion357 wrote:
Noticed that shadow changed the name of the missile frigate to assault frigate? Not yet sold on that wonder what the thinking was? 

Assault (Rocket) Scout
Assault (Rocket) Frigate 
Cool

Quote:
The new Missile friates are fast but only as fast as a DD. If they can maneuver behind a DD and managed to match its speed and course changes for 20-30 minutes it may just effect the same feat that the vaunted assault scout has been able to perform for decades and with a bigger hull it can absorb more damage than an assault scout and may survive going toe to toe with the sathar destroyer. It is questionable whether a frigate can effectively maneuver behind a destroyer due to the similarity in their handling but it is worth noting that a frigate commander should watch for the opportunity.

Don't forget it can launch TWO assault rockets per turn due to dual launchers, and once in AR range the target is also subject to the four pod laser turrets (along with the pair of longer range laser batteries). The results can be devastating.
I'm not overly fond of Zeb's Guide...nor do I have any qualms stating why. Tongue out

My SF website

jedion357's picture
jedion357
October 11, 2021 - 10:44am
@ Shadowshack: it would be optimal to get behind it but I also suppose going strait at it will work as well

A division of two of these or a squadron of four all in tight formation- that would be devastating 

I'm going to have to put some minis on a table and run some tests
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!