Dr Who Christmas Special (spoilers?)

jedion357's picture
jedion357
December 27, 2017 - 4:34pm
Confession: im not a Dr Who fan. 

However, figured id record the Christmas Special since they were bringing the first Doctor back for a guest appearance. 

And as they would say across the pond, "It was bloody brilliant." Or at least that's how i feel about it.

Like that they rebuilt the original TARDIS inside and out.
Nice story and i like how it was determined that the 12th incarnation of the Doctor was the Time Lord of War. Enjoyable story even if youre not a big fan.

Edit: it is however where they introduce the first ever woman Doctor which gives me pause.


I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!
Comments:

Shadow Shack's picture
Shadow Shack
December 28, 2017 - 1:56am
The fact that they called it the "Christmas" Special and not the politically correct "holiday special" is reason enough to see it. ;)
No, I'm not overly fond of Zeb's Guide. Nor do I have any qualms in stating why. Tongue out

My SF website

rattraveller's picture
rattraveller
December 28, 2017 - 4:33am
I say Happy Holidays. One there are many holidays at this time Christmas Eve, Christmas Day, New Year's Eve, New Year's Day, Yule, Kwanza, usually Hannukkah and Ramadan plus some people's birthdays and anniversaries. I do not assume everyone I meet is a Christian who celebrates Christmas since some Christians do not celebrate the holiday. 

So have a Happy Holiday Season.
Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go?

Stormcrow's picture
Stormcrow
December 28, 2017 - 8:39am
The old-style TARDIS interior was built for the 50th anniversary special An Adventure in Space and Time, and they've been using it whenever they can since then, rather blatantly.

The episode was pretty much just a nostalgia-fest, with little actual plot. In other words, standard fare for the last couple of Moffat years. I'm hoping Chibnall returns to the old and successful pattern of "Doctor and companions appear somewhere they've never been before and don't know anything about, and have adventures without constantly giving mythic speeches."

Shadow Shack's picture
Shadow Shack
December 28, 2017 - 9:07am
rattraveller wrote:
One there are many holidays at this time Christmas Eve, Christmas Day, New Year's Eve, New Year's Day, Yule, Kwanza, usually Hannukkah and Ramadan plus some people's birthdays and anniversaries.

While true, only three of those are listed on the typical commercial calendar. Also noteworthy, the number of "happy holidays" salutations is significantly different when it changes to "happy new year" salutations on the morning of Dec.26, so the big question is if we're to be politically correct, shouldn't "happy holidays" continue after the holiday it was designed to dodge?
No, I'm not overly fond of Zeb's Guide. Nor do I have any qualms in stating why. Tongue out

My SF website

rattraveller's picture
rattraveller
December 28, 2017 - 1:46pm
I continue it afterwards but I do not control the actions of others.
Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go?

Shadow Shack's picture
Shadow Shack
December 28, 2017 - 7:43pm
Then you are in the vast minority, I applaud you for that.

I suppose the rest are mindlessly following the herd...
No, I'm not overly fond of Zeb's Guide. Nor do I have any qualms in stating why. Tongue out

My SF website

rattraveller's picture
rattraveller
December 29, 2017 - 4:28am
Actually I am probably just to lazy to correct myself. Never underestimate laziness.
Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go?

Stormcrow's picture
Stormcrow
December 29, 2017 - 6:52am
People don't say "happy holidays" to avoid or exclude Christmas; they say "happy holidays" to INCLUDE those who don't celebrate Christmas.

The Doctor Who Christmas specials are always aired on Christmas and are always about Christmas in one way or another. They are not "holiday" specials; they are specifically Christmas specials.

To tell Jews to say "merry Christmas" or shut up when they're busy celebrating Channukah, or the same for adherents of any other religion with a holiday in December, is boorish. But then, American culture is pretty boorish, especially in the last few years.

KRingway's picture
KRingway
December 29, 2017 - 7:02am
Yes, in the UK around Christmas most people are too drunk to argue the point. And if they do decide to slug it out, they're too full of food to even stand up Wink But basically, no-one cares generally no-one gets offended unless they go out of their way to feel like that Laughing

Shadow Shack's picture
Shadow Shack
December 29, 2017 - 10:57am
KRingway wrote:
 generally no-one gets offended unless they go out of their way to feel like that Laughing

That's the problem with our modern American culture: on the whole we get too easily offended and need our safety zones & diaper pins. Look to our last election as proof of that...I mean I've seen the Fantastic Four comics, cartoons, & movies and Reed Richards NEVER reached that far. Tongue out

That said, does anyone actually know someone that celebrates Kwanza or Ramada? Let me rephrase that: does anyone here in the US actually know someone that celebrates Kwanza or Ramadan? Furthermore has anyone at least met or encountered one?

I only found out about those after the politically correct movement was in full force but have yet to meet anyone that proclaims to celebrate either. After all this is America and one is an African holiday and the other is an Islamic holiday celebrated in May or June IIRC, so I guess we have to say "Happy Holidays" year round? This is the point I'm making with my opening statement here: I'm quite sure there's that one person in tens of thousands who actually observes one of these in some way/shape/form that got offended by "Merry Christmas" --- and it certainly wasn't the Jewish/Israelis because while they may be quick to point out their faith when receiving such a salutation, they also realize that there are at least three acceptable spellings for their observed holiday of which they usually have a difficult time spelling as well --- hence the movement.
No, I'm not overly fond of Zeb's Guide. Nor do I have any qualms in stating why. Tongue out

My SF website

Stormcrow's picture
Stormcrow
December 29, 2017 - 1:38pm
I know many Muslims who celebrate Ramadan. Ramadan is not set in a fixed time of the year, because it follows the Islamic lunar calendar, not the Gregorian calendar. Sometimes it occurs at the same time as Christmas, sometimes it doesn't. I also know Jews and Buddhists. I know people of many different Christian denominations. I happen to work in a place that is accepting to all cultures and attracts people internationally. I do NOT get angry at them if they say "happy holidays."

I am also not a Christian. I don't get angry if someone says "merry Christmas."

The problem with America is not that people are easily offended. The problem is that a lot of the people are intolerant and xenophobic.

Shadow Shack's picture
Shadow Shack
December 29, 2017 - 3:43pm
The problem is this: on December 25th you either get the day off from work or you get paid extra for working on it. You might even be fortunate enough to get paid when you don't work that day. As far as I know there's only one holiday that falls on that particular day, and that's the day that is recognized universally by the staff & management alike regardless what denomination they happen to be or what holiday they happen to celebrate.

If all the naysayers out there really believed in this PC cause, they would be working on making whatever December holiday they recognize as a floating holiday. Oh, wait...we already did that with a pair of presidential birthdays (and in some areas, Veteran's Day) in order to recognize one specific cultural group's civil rights leader as a holiday. Once that was passed, the "War on Christmas" began in earnest on the premise of "we can't recgonize just one group as a holiday." See the problem now? 
No, I'm not overly fond of Zeb's Guide. Nor do I have any qualms in stating why. Tongue out

My SF website

rattraveller's picture
rattraveller
December 29, 2017 - 4:45pm
To be inclusive, I am Wiccan and celebrate Yule. This occurs on the Winter Solstice and is usually around Dec. 20 every year. Really hard to find Happy Yule cards these days.
Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go?

KRingway's picture
KRingway
December 29, 2017 - 4:45pm
I tend to think that it's all down to the fact that America is not a very old country and it's still in the process of ironing out the various kinks that Europe and elsewhere have figured at least 400 years ago. The US is barely out of of infanthood. At it's heart and historically the US is made up of a wide variety of cultures and influences, but as the founding fathers were pretty much ostracised English bigots their legacy still throws around too much weight even in the 21st century. They're still the 'norm' by which all other things are measured. This will pass, of course. I mean, in the UK we just figured out that it wasn't worth really getting worked up about after the civil war between Cromwell and the aristocracy, partly because it killed more people per capita than World War One and partly because some people in the UK (royalists etc) would rather pretend that the past was better than it is now. This still tends to hold the UK back as state, and our legacy of colonialism isn't really helping matters to a certain extent. At some point the US will go through it's current phase and mature to full statehood. It's just not happening soon. PC, socio-political dialogue, etc may seem new in the US but a version of it has been doing the rounds in Europe etc for at least 200 years. Despite what I've said about the UK, it's really only an interesting place because it's diverse culturally and ethnically. Whilst their are certain parties within the country that very much dislike this, they ignore it at their peril, History will pass them by. I think the same sorts of things will happen in the US - at some point it will (cuturally speaking) just chill out and figure out a good way of doing things. It's just having teething problems right now Wink

KRingway's picture
KRingway
December 29, 2017 - 4:50pm
rattraveller wrote:
To be inclusive, I am Wiccan and celebrate Yule. This occurs on the Winter Solstice and is usually around Dec. 20 every year. Really hard to find Happy Yule cards these days.


You might want to move to somewhere in Scandinavia, as Yule in various forms is the go-to for Christmas. I live in Finland, and despite the fact that Finnish is it's own weird language group they still use the term 'Hyvää Joulua' (more or less 'happy Christmas'). 'Joulua' is pretty much 'Yule'. Wicca pretty much means you can add and subtract things as you see fit.

rattraveller's picture
rattraveller
December 29, 2017 - 4:55pm
Not exactly. You see the religious extremists who settled America did not approve of the Christmas celebrations and usually banned them and fined those that celebrated Christmas. Little later once the British were politely asked to leave the United States, Christmas was not popular as it was seen as the King's Holiday since the King was the head of the Church they did not want His things around. 

It was only later in the Nineteenth Century when Germans and East Europeans began to arrive and bring their Christmas traditions with them that Americans started to pick up on the traditions and not until the Victorian age took off that Christmas as currently celebrated would be recognized.

Hey if your English do you still elect a Lord of Misrule for Christmas?
Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go?

Shadow Shack's picture
Shadow Shack
December 29, 2017 - 8:35pm
rattraveller wrote:
Hey if your English do you still elect a Lord of Misrule for Christmas?

Personally I'm more interested in the year-round practice of prima nocta.

Oh, wait...you need to be a wealthy noble or ruling class for that one. Never mind.
No, I'm not overly fond of Zeb's Guide. Nor do I have any qualms in stating why. Tongue out

My SF website

KRingway's picture
KRingway
December 30, 2017 - 3:00am
rattraveller wrote:
Not exactly. You see the religious extremists who settled America did not approve of the Christmas celebrations and usually banned them and fined those that celebrated Christmas. Little later once the British were politely asked to leave the United States, Christmas was not popular as it was seen as the King's Holiday since the King was the head of the Church they did not want His things around. 

It was only later in the Nineteenth Century when Germans and East Europeans began to arrive and bring their Christmas traditions with them that Americans started to pick up on the traditions and not until the Victorian age took off that Christmas as currently celebrated would be recognized.

Hey if your English do you still elect a Lord of Misrule for Christmas?


I was thinking more about the general tone of intolerance set by the Founders. I think it still hangs around in the US in various forms. But, sooner or later it will fade away. At the end of the day, people just want an easy life and to get along.

As for a Lord of Misrule, I don't think it's a thing in the UK any more. It never happened in the rural part of the country where I was born and raised. Possibly someone is keeping it going somehwere, but I expect that might be a Victorian version. Quite a lot of what people think are 'old' customs in the UK are either rehashes or outright inventions by the Victorians Wink

rattraveller's picture
rattraveller
December 30, 2017 - 6:16am
So much like the US the UK's Christmas celebrations are constantly changing and not as set as we would like to believe them to be. 

Makes me wonder with the greatly expanded lifespans of the Core Four do their traditions change much? Given that they are mixing four very different cultures what would be a mix of traditions combined together?
Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go?

iggy's picture
iggy
December 31, 2017 - 1:31pm
Great question Rattraveller.  I happen to know that dralasites have spun the human practice of feasting holidays like Thanks Giving, Christmas Dinner, The Supper Bowl, Independance Days, End of Month Long Fasts, Etc. and made their own feast holiday.  They celebrate the discovery day of eepo, their favorite dral pudding, by going to the steam baths and then after a good soak they all climb together into a giant vat of eepo and soak it in until they are so full they are uncousious.
-iggy

rattraveller's picture
rattraveller
December 30, 2017 - 7:47pm
That is both very gross and somehow very appropriate for the Dralasites.
Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go?

KRingway's picture
KRingway
January 2, 2018 - 6:37am
rattraveller wrote:
So much like the US the UK's Christmas celebrations are constantly changing and not as set as we would like to believe them to be. 


There is a good book called 'Maypoles, Martyrs and Mayhem' which is a description of various events and traditions that either still exist in some form or were once celebrated in the UK. It takes each day of the year and gives and overview about what happened on that day. It's very funny too. The problem is that urbanisation and middle-class notions of 'respectability' killed off many of these events, or has made them a pallid version of how things once were. Even in my lifetime a few that I used to go to as a kid have now become so dull and bereft of fun that I think they're kept just so that people who aren't really locals can pretend they're living in a rural idyll. The whole notion of them being 'quaint' is what has actually led to the downfall many traditions, espeically those out in the countryside. They've been made more palatable to affluent urbanites who've moved or retired to these areas. For example, market days - which sometimes could be 3 day events during which farm workers actually got some time off to party hard - have now either vanished or turned into sober and boring craft fairs or something similar. It's sad IMHO. Ah well!

jedion357's picture
jedion357
January 3, 2018 - 6:38am
KRingway wrote:
rattraveller wrote:
So much like the US the UK's Christmas celebrations are constantly changing and not as set as we would like to believe them to be. 


There is a good book called 'Maypoles, Martyrs and Mayhem' which is a description of various events and traditions that either still exist in some form or were once celebrated in the UK. It takes each day of the year and gives and overview about what happened on that day. It's very funny too. The problem is that urbanisation and middle-class notions of 'respectability' killed off many of these events, or has made them a pallid version of how things once were. Even in my lifetime a few that I used to go to as a kid have now become so dull and bereft of fun that I think they're kept just so that people who aren't really locals can pretend they're living in a rural idyll. The whole notion of them being 'quaint' is what has actually led to the downfall many traditions, espeically those out in the countryside. They've been made more palatable to affluent urbanites who've moved or retired to these areas. For example, market days - which sometimes could be 3 day events during which farm workers actually got some time off to party hard - have now either vanished or turned into sober and boring craft fairs or something similar. It's sad IMHO. Ah well!


My first introduction to a Market Day when we took up residence in the quaint East Anglia countryside outside Bury St. Edmonds in the bustling hamlet of Hingham was my mother suggesting we go to the "Boot Sale" on market day. And I thought, "we dont need any boots." And as I questioned the irrationality of this activity i was then enlightened to the fact that this "boot sale" was done from the trunk of a car. And I thought, "why the hell do the English sell boots from the trunk of their car?"
Eventually i discovered that the trunk is not a trunk its the boot of the car and the hood is the bonnet.
And while boots could be sold from the boot of a car during a boot sale they are not neccessarily offered for sale but rather a boot sale is more of a flea market affair of which we have a few here in New England.

To say that I was not initially impressed with market day is an understatement but then I was 17 and more interested in spending time with American friends actually living on Lakenheath AFB.

Although after turning 18 and being introduced to bitter at the one and only local pub in Hingham by some of the other teens in the village, I did begin to enjoy England and engage with the "setting" more.
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

rattraveller's picture
rattraveller
January 3, 2018 - 7:36am
Glad to hear you were able to get some of the English to American Translation down.

Language is interesting as different dialects develop. Anyone ever use differing dialects in SF?
Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go?

jedion357's picture
jedion357
January 3, 2018 - 12:19pm
rattraveller wrote:
Glad to hear you were able to get some of the English to American Translation down.

Language is interesting as different dialects develop. Anyone ever use differing dialects in SF?


I, from time to time, will write something like this: Word X which translates to Word Y "in Pan Gal" and from the context its somewhat obvious that I'm pretending that English is Pan Gal.
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

rattraveller's picture
rattraveller
January 5, 2018 - 3:05pm
In the glut of holidays I forgot one. Maybe because I don't celebrate it. So can someone tell me what the heck Boxing Day is?
Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go?

jedion357's picture
jedion357
January 5, 2018 - 7:33pm
rattraveller wrote:
In the glut of holidays I forgot one. Maybe because I don't celebrate it. So can someone tell me what the heck Boxing Day is?

Day after Christmas where you take your "boxes" back to the store of all the stuff you got that dont fit or you dont want. I believe its a British holiday. 

At least i seem to remember it being a thing when i was there.
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

Shadow Shack's picture
Shadow Shack
January 6, 2018 - 12:35am
Quote:
Day after Christmas where you take your "boxes" back to the store of all the stuff ... ... .... .... ... .. you dont want. 

In other cultures that's simply referred to as "ungrateful". ;)
No, I'm not overly fond of Zeb's Guide. Nor do I have any qualms in stating why. Tongue out

My SF website

KRingway's picture
KRingway
January 6, 2018 - 6:32am
jedion357 wrote:
Day after Christmas where you take your "boxes" back to the store of all the stuff you got that dont fit or you dont want. I believe its a British holiday. 

At least i seem to remember it being a thing when i was there.


That's a very weird explanation. The 'box' in Boxing Day refers to alms boxes. These were opened in churches on the 26th ( St Stepehen's Day) and money distributed to the poor of the parish. Sometimes it was food rather than money, the food being whatever wasn't eaten by richer households on Christmas Day.  That said, the name is probably not older than about 1850 or so. It's celebrated in other countries too - i.e. Finland.

KRingway's picture
KRingway
January 6, 2018 - 6:42am
jedion357 wrote:
My first introduction to a Market Day when we took up residence in the quaint East Anglia countryside outside Bury St. Edmonds in the bustling hamlet of Hingham was my mother suggesting we go to the "Boot Sale" on market day. And I thought, "we dont need any boots." And as I questioned the irrationality of this activity i was then enlightened to the fact that this "boot sale" was done from the trunk of a car. And I thought, "why the hell do the English sell boots from the trunk of their car?"
Eventually i discovered that the trunk is not a trunk its the boot of the car and the hood is the bonnet.
And while boots could be sold from the boot of a car during a boot sale they are not neccessarily offered for sale but rather a boot sale is more of a flea market affair of which we have a few here in New England.


Yeah, car boot sales aren't really markets. In England, villages and towns were historically only allowed to have a dedicated market if it was given by a royal charter. These charters could date back quite some time - I used to live in Croydon (on the edge of London) and I think the market there dated from a charter in the 12th century. It's still going - although it's pretty much a short road along which are stalls for food and cheap clothing, etc. The charter at Kingston-on-Thames may be even older, possibly dating to the time of King Alfred IIRC. Smaller villages may have had a market but not needed a charter if it was just some small way of buying and selling goods.

That said, some towns that used to have a market now just have car boot sales. Also, markets weren't always just various people selling food and other things. Some market days were just for selling livestock, or combined selling animals, food, and were a place where workers could look for new jobs or younger people could look for apprenticeships.