 March 19, 2016 - 11:07am | What, if any, independent planets and/or interstellar governments exist in your Star Frontiers universe and outside the Frontier Sector? Do you use the Rim, whether the original Zeb's version or something altered? Looking at the books for hints: It seems as if the Sathar must come from someplace. It could be that they mostly live in large deep space craft, and only control a few settled worlds. Or maybe they have a big empire with lots of planets. I think the Star Devil pirates originated someplace beyond the Frontier, yeah? I'd better look that up. If one goes with the AD set up, then the Core Four home worlds lie someplace outside the Frontier. The Yazirians might be from someplace close. Or maybe not. I would definitely go with the home worlds existing outside the Frontier. In contrast to AD, though, I assume the Humans originated on Earth. |
 March 24, 2016 - 3:47am | I just rechecked Zeb, and no, there are no hard numbers. |
 March 24, 2016 - 6:30am | When consulting Zeb's Guide, it's difficult to find anything tangible.  |
 March 24, 2016 - 10:50am | Just my thoughts on something which have no basis in fact: Or how I see colonization in advance civiliation works. Lets start with expansion of populations: Simply put, a culture would wish to keep a certain ammount of people on the homeworld (whatever the reason). Not only because it is their homeworld but someone needs to keep the place running. Automation and robotic servants may not fly in certain cultures or the realization that blood sweat and tears is what drives cultural grow as well as, technological advancesment. There would also be the need of the culture to point at a certain star in the sky and say. "we came from there." It's pride more than anything. History shows just how many ways and reasons it can be done. Nor would it be like real world examples where people hop on leaky boat and escape to distances shores to escape the woes of their own country (Keep Politics out of this). Ships would have to be sponored and people selected. You don't need to be star ship engineer to know, if someone packs a leaky ship full of people, that the people and the government would be out for your head, if just one of them died due to wrong doing on the part of the ship's owner. Attiudes (unless it is a Crisis mirgration i.e. World Collides scenario: good movie by the way.) would have changed dramitically by then, plus you need people to build the new world. So you're no going to through them to wolves. Or left to die because the colony fails. Therefore they must be able reabsorb the colony if necessary. It wouldn't be a flood of people going, it would a trickle. No one in there right mind is going to let the best and brightest just walk out on you. It would be a done in such a manner that everyone would get a chance and not a select few (Reason as all ready stated). You would want your colony to work for a goal, so for no better explain; Five years plans would be require. Feed house and clothes them would be the priorty at first until the colony was up and running, then there could be travel between worlds. It is only after a culture has several (pick a number) worlds are you going to see major shifts in population because the cultural dynamic has changed. Another part that is cultural is terms of colonization, is motivation (political, religious or just going there to be there or the first.) It has become the goal of the cultural to settle this new world. Necessity is as factor as well. But the cultural has to be united in order to product the equipment and material it takes to get there and estblish a base. It's not a small feat no matter what the technological base is. Everything has to come together at that point in history to make it happen. Just my two credit here...
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 March 24, 2016 - 10:34am | When consulting Zeb's Guide, it's difficult to find anything tangible.  Joe Cabadas |
 March 24, 2016 - 11:04am | @Tollon, good points. Initial colonies are going to be well planned. Later as colonies become established there will be immigration between worlds and to colonies. There will even be recruiting to get specific immigrants. -iggy |
March 24, 2016 - 11:07am | When consulting Zeb's Guide, it's difficult to find anything tangible.
I wasn't specifically speaking of Zeb's guide. I don't think any SF book actually puts numbers to population size. -iggy |
March 24, 2016 - 11:22am | It wouldn't be a flood of people going, it would a trickle.
When you put it that way, true. However, consulting Zeb's Guide --- cue the intangibility factor --- all of those corporate worlds were discovered and settled from fy30-fy32. Considering how jumps between individual systems can take days, and in some cases weeks (re: Prenglar to Athor or Prenglar to Gruna Garu)...it wasn't just a flood, it was a galactic scale bum-rush. Notice how every time we digest a portion of Zeb's Guide it simply continues to prove its worthlessness? It's as if Lorraine Wiiliams wasn't just intentionlly trying to kill this game, but did so in the most blatantly obvious methods. |
March 24, 2016 - 11:24am | I wasn't specifically speaking of Zeb's guide. I don't think any SF book actually puts numbers to population size. {EDIT} Wow, really? I wasn't even multi-quoting this time... True, AD doesn't mention numbers either. Even so, it's still a far more tangible source book that doesn't contradict itself multiple times per subject along the way. |
March 25, 2016 - 3:45am | (Static crack's over the airwaves at this thread is hijacked by the Free Star Froniter League) Down with ZEB! I don't want to roll a dice and look at chart to resolve something in the game. Put a modifier on the roll and be done with it. Nor do I like weapons that don't make sense, either. (oh wait let me get my protective suit on.) then "bang bang" you're dead. But I did take things from it. PSA for example. The point is, it reads like a module more than a set of rules. This forum makes a very good attempt at flushing out the Star Froniter Universe through use of the fan magazine. Alpha Dawn is a good robust systems, it sets up the background and let's the people's imgination run with it. We've all played games and know a+b doesn't always equal F, or Z for that matter. We have also played with those who follow the module to the letter and get frustrated with the group wandering away from the storyline. The terminology. "Doesn't play with others." comes to mind. Zeb Broke into the second rule. It was designed to make the game more structure like other products in the TSR catalog. The problem is sci-fi can wander all over the place because of the technology of the imagination. Magic has laws which must followed or strange and weird stuff happens. Technology tells you, you makes a mistake and it stops working or blows up in your face. Zeb blow up in your face. You scratch your head and say "who the heck built this?" The result was it killed off the product line. Traveller has run though the same things but the creator of the system has keep plugging away at. It's faulter but it's still there. Because the fanbase want it. The same goes for Star Frontiers but we don't have the backing Traveller does. Or an individual willing to spend the time, money and effort to fix it. The best we can do is provide those who seek to play the game the opinions, thoughts and tools necessary to see the spirt of the game for what is is. (Static cracks once again as the voice of the minnion announces: "LONG LIVE ZEB!")
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March 25, 2016 - 7:52am | The same goes for Star Frontiers but we don't have the backing Traveller does. Or an individual willing to spend the time, money and effort to fix it.
Actually, we do have such an individual...several, in fact. The owner simply refuses to sell the license to said persons. This game has been permanently Zebbed. |
March 25, 2016 - 8:23am | (seeking cover) Can't talk right now, dodging guys in lead lined suits firing Rafflur. But I'm sorry about that, Even the owner of Traveller sought help with his latest verison Chow baby... |
March 25, 2016 - 8:44am | I read Frontier in the sense of border. That could be the edge of civilization and settlement, but it could also be a border zone between star nations. |
March 25, 2016 - 9:45am | IT could be seen like that, Bio-social. But I've always taken Froniters to mean an area of conflict. AD paints the game as the Wild West and the danger of unknown. Uncivilized area where four races are trying to find a common ground and united against a common foe. With many of the games that came out in the early 80's the metaphor is there to describe the conflict between the superpowers. SF is no different. The Sathar are the bad superpower and the four core races (with all their problems) are the good guys. They made it out to be in there modules that the four never had issues with each other, but in real game play that wasn't never the case, as character were made to reflect their alien-ness and players explored that side of them. You can run a very dark Star Froniters campagian without needing the Sathar stirring the pot. Think about about it, Bug, ape and Blob would be common slurs. One amusing fact here is, Hairless ape used as term for human could start a fight that could brings two races together because of the commonality two of the four possed. While the Vrusk would be seen as icky creature because of human phobia's toward insect. The struggle to conquer the unknown and explore it is as much of that Frontier as what I just described. Ship wrecked by priates on an alien world, exploring unknown world and the infighting between of corporations can paint it as the wild west. It is a zone with conflict, exploration and defeating the unknown. That what I love about the game: the exploration of a new froniter... |
March 25, 2016 - 10:09am | Same. I prefer the presentation and state of affairs in the Frontier as shown in AD to the later, more settled and developed, Frontier depicted in Zeb's Guide. Very much so. I also like the UPF as a security alliance, as per AD, rather than an interstellar federated state. Not that there isn't fun stuff in Zeb's Guide. But I would just take the parts I like and leave the rest. |
March 25, 2016 - 11:20am | Hey, Tollon, how is "wait, let me get my suit on" any less so for albedo suits or skein suits than it is for synth suits or maser mesh? Defensive suits are part of the core game. |
March 25, 2016 - 9:22pm | When you use a term like "rafflurs" (RApidly FLUctuating Radiation), I have tendency to think of a weapons that producting large ammount of radiation. Therefore as a joke, guys who fire such weapons, would wish to protect themselves from said radiation. It was not intended as insult to the core rules. |
March 25, 2016 - 10:11pm | I like to think of the frontier as a land rush similar to the discovery of the new world but on a grander scale. The core races found worlds in every direction and the frontier is just the little section where these four are mingling. That way the home worlds can be too busy to worry about the beings that flew off in this one random direction. They have many other more interesting directions to go. -iggy |
March 25, 2016 - 11:15pm | As written, the entire concept of mega-corp worlds is just a process of jumping on the bandwagon and being unique, just like everyone else. Even the Zeb's listings for them are pointless: Exodus was simply founded with no reason at all, citing only PGC knows of its use and existence. Why bother listing it at all?
  "This is a Pan-Galactic Holo-News Special Report: "Many have heard of the existence of various mega-corporatate world, though their purpose has often been shrouded in mystery. Today, Chang Kim Lee, the honorable chairman, cheif executive officer and executive president of our parent company -- the Pan-Galactic Corporation -- has revealed the existance of the planet the Pan-Gal star system." Scene of a lush, blue and green planet from space. "Although the Frontier Office of Survey and Statistics has listed Exodus as having a moderate population, that is not entirely true." An aerial view of the planet from 200 feet is now displayed in the holographic field showing a seemingly endless beach stretching off to the horizon. Tropical plants gently swaying in the breeze. "The planet is a vacationer's paradise with resources are capable of supporting a large population." Another scene shows large scale robotic farms at work. "Developed for the past several decades, Exodus is capable of supporting a self-sustaining colony for centuries in case disaster ever occurs. In fact, that's the reason why it was created. "After the First Sathar War, many Frontier business beings have worried about the end of times. That the Sathar would return -- like they did recently with their second wave of attacks -- and finish off the destruction of the Frontier. They wanted a safe place to go to." A view of a series of craggy, rocky mountains appeared in the holographic field, then a close-up of a massive blast door leading to an underground shuttle hanger/vehicle garage. "Pan-Gal created the ultimate, luxury hideaways and survival shelters. Capable of surviving the largest of nuclear weapons, these underground apartments can sustain entire families for decades in comfort and peace." Well-appointed rooms are shown next along with pools, spas and even vast hydroponic gardens -- all underground. "The Pan-Galactic Corporation is now offering select locations on Exodus for the discriminating buyer. All starting at 5 million Credits. The price includes full access to the planet at any time, plus other amenities are the aboveground resorts. "The native Yinni population is friendly and may even show off their throwing skills with their helibode blades." Small, bat-like humanoids are shown gliding about at night as bonfires glow. They are offering aerial displays of their combat skills to an appreciative audience of the Core Four races. "Just contact your local PGC Realtor's office for further details. "This ends this special Pan-Galactic Holo-News Speical Report." Joe Cabadas |
March 27, 2016 - 3:31am | I suppose the one reason for megacorporations to establish their own planetary settlements would be to avoid paying taxes to existing governments. ...the entire concept of mega-corp worlds is just a process of jumping on the bandwagon and being unique, just like everyone else. Even the Zeb's listings for them are pointless: ... Genesis was also founded by PGC and is the only one with a valid explanation: a secure base for their research labs. Still, with offices on EVERY Frontier world, this seems moot because there are several established outpost worlds --- worlds which they no doubt already had a hand in establishing/developing ... Aboard the deep-space ore carrier PGCS Nostralitis: A red-headed man named Rip Tyde is working on the head of a Vrusk android. “Why are you trying to turn it back on?” asked the
Dralasite Paarcoor. Rip pushed the head down onto the floor to steady it. “Az’hilik? Az’hilik can you hear me?” The head began bobbing about. Orange fluid came
from its mouth while nearby, the android’s body slightly quivered. “Yes, yes I can hear you,” came the Vrusk’s voice with a distinct mechanical sound. “What was your primary order?” The android’s fake mandibles clicked. “You read the order. I thought it was quite clear.” “Tell me anyway.” “Bring back the lifeform to the planet Genesis. Priority one. All other priorities rescinded.” “The damn company,” Paarcoor broke in. “What about our lives?” The android’s compound eyes met the Dralasite’s veiny eyespots. “I repeat, all other priorities rescinded…” --A scene from the holo-movie “Xenomorph” by Starplay Enterprises and marketed by Streel Distribution, LLC The mega-corporate world Genesis in the Pan-Gal star system has been a mystery to many in the Frontier. While the planet Exodus in the same system was recently revealed as a getaway and hideaway for the UPF’s one-percenters, Genesis is an outpost world with a thin, toxic atmosphere. The Pan-Galactic Corporation keeps some of its most secure research facilities here, but what are they doing? It is know that PGC conducts “dark research” there – the most highly classified projects done by scientists and engineers with the maximum security clearances who might be there for years. Rumors have long persisted that Pan-Gal’s bio-weapons division is looking at creating cyber robots to counter the Sathar cyber monsters or for researching exotic diseases to turn into bio-weapons, such as a plague that killed the crew of the PGCS Omnicron, or for longevity projects that may extend the lives of the average Frontier citizen to a millennium. Still others say the mega-corp has imprisoned shapeshifters on Genesis and is training them as corporate spies to take over and replace executives in rival corporations. Or in an independent documentary film, “The Secret of Vimh,” alleges that PGC experiments created the rodent-like race. PGC has hotly denied all of these allegations, but whatever the truth is, Genesis is outside UPF control and oversight. Joe Cabadas |
March 27, 2016 - 7:27am |
PGC has hotly denied all of these allegations,
but whatever the truth is, Genesis is outside UPF control and oversight.
And as such, is not under the protection of the UPF when the next Sathar invasion comes whipping through the Frontier. At which point PGC can witness just how effective Az’hilik really is(n't).  |
March 27, 2016 - 8:43am | (tossing a handgrenade at UPF troops) Tell me about? Besides corporations wouldn't want to be left out in the cold under the scenario painted by JCab and Shadow Shack suggest. First they my need them to clean up the mess (BOOM) ("sorry for the noise in the back round".) and second it is easier to bribe them, the wanting to make the suspicious of their actives. Got a run. (gunfire)
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March 27, 2016 - 1:10pm | Well, I hope the Exodus planet idea is a little more reasonable... of course it doesn't quite match the Zebs description. But we've all agreed that a lot of the Zebs timeline is junk. Joe Cabadas |
March 27, 2016 - 1:27pm | That's debatable, a lot of junk is salvageable.  |
March 27, 2016 - 9:50pm | That's debatable, a lot of junk is salvageable. But of course, that's why salvage yards exist... and garage sales... second hand clothing stores... pawn shops. I just wanted to throw out an idea or two of how to salvage the corporate worlds... as for the plague systems... ugh! They need to be repurposed. Maybe for some of the minor races or a couple of the optional worlds listed in Star Frontiersman or Frontier Explorer. Such as the Janus planet. Depending upon what the PGC actually does on Gensis, they might use the logic that the Sathar aren't hiding behind every asteroid and forgo UPF oversight... or maybe they have the Council of the Worlds' sanction for their wierd science experiments. Joe Cabadas |
March 27, 2016 - 10:28pm | As an aside to the current trend of the thread, I got the impression that there was going to be more material on the new "frontier of the Frontier" (the regions beyond the Rim and the various nebulae) later, but Lorraine dropped the XXVC hammer on SF before that could happen. |
March 28, 2016 - 5:15am | I agree it would have been nice had the Guide been permitted to continue, but as I inferred the Wildebeest intentionally killed SF and as such made the only instalment little more than a punchline to a bad joke. Had they been serious about a SF reboot, they would have hired better writers, artists, and editors for the book (that alone tells me the intent was clear: "See? Declining sales, KILL IT!!!). Instead the top talent appeared on the cover to entice us to buy that shrinkwrpaped book, only to discover what a crap fest it really was on the inside. Seriously, had I been able to examine the contents back in 1985, I would have put it back on the shelf. Even as a tender teen I was horrifically underwhelmed after paging through it at home, lamenting the $6 and the time travelled back and forth to acquire it. It certainly hasn't aged well since then either. IIRC wasn't this about the same time frame AD&D was getting FUBARed via 3e? If so I don't find this a coincidence. |
March 28, 2016 - 6:41am | No, AD&D was in the midst of the "splat book" deluge. 3e was much later. |
March 28, 2016 - 7:43am | As an aside to the current trend of the thread, I got the impression that there was going to be more material on the new "frontier of the Frontier" (the regions beyond the Rim and the various nebulae) later, but Lorraine dropped the XXVC hammer on SF before that could happen. I agree. I think that was the whole point of the Mutiny on the Eleanor Moraes, which was part one of the "Beyond the Frontier" series. I just wish the game creators had given a bit more meat to the existing Frontier worlds. If I'm not mistaken, the Warriors of White Light and the Dramune Run are the only modules set on worlds first listed in Alpha Dawn? Yes, I'm discounting the Volturnus series, because that has a beyond the Frontier feel. I like the Dark Side of the Moon module with its Human versus Vrusk element, but Kraatar wasn't one of the key worlds listed in AD. Sorry, same old gripes. Joe Cabadas |
March 28, 2016 - 8:08am | Repurposing the Plague Worlds Others have mentioned elsewhere on the forums (I think Thomas Verreault/jedion357) that a complete history should be developed for the plague worlds -- if someone actually wants to use them. How about the Alpha system? It is 4 light years from Prenglar and 4 from Timeon. You can still have the direct space route from Prenglar to Timeon, but Alpha is in the heart of the Frontier. So, what should it be? Elsewhere in the forums -- see topic "New (Old) Star Frontiers Book," http://www.starfrontiers.us/node/7896 -- Bossmoss gave a rather good synopsis of some Endless Quest books that TSR had published dealing with the game universe including another planet called Nedram. "According to Star Rangers and the Spy," Bossmoss wrote, "Nedram is a busy central planet of the Frontier, and is where many of Spacefleet's top offices exist. It is the home planet of the main characters. It is an earthlike planet with blue dirt..." That world sounds a lot like what Gran Quievera is supposed to be, so I suggested it could be fictional world. But Nedram could be fleshed out into yet another colonized world. Or, Alpha could be the site for Janus, which was highlighted in the most recent Frontier Explorer magazine. Getting back to the topic of population growth, maybe some of this growth represents new colonists coming in from the faraway homeworlds? Joe Cabadas |
March 28, 2016 - 8:54am | I am inclined to place previously unlisted, settled/civilized planets/systems like Kraatar outside the Frontier sector. They can be in adjacent regions of space. That keeps the Frontier from becoming too crowded and developed for my purposes, but allows me to use the modules and the new planets pretty much as is or with only minor alterations. YMMV |
