Sathar Biology & Ramifications of it:

Tchklinxa's picture
Tchklinxa
May 3, 2015 - 12:48pm
After reading a few things in this project area I have been forced to really give this creature a rethink on it's biology and what it might mean culture wise: 

I am going to start with a few biological things I noticed:

Mouth circular & ringed with teeth, could indicates a biological history of developing from a parasitic, filter feeder, and or scavenger creature that latched onto another living creature burrowing into it with its' teeth to reach blood and body floods but could also survive by filter feeding, sucking in smaller live animals and other nutrients, eating algae off of rocks and very possibly being a scavenger of partly decayed mater both plant & animal. Basically Sathar and related races eat a semi-liquified diet of both fresh & decayed plants & animals. Sathar Cuisine might be very slimy, mucky and yucky to other races.

Another thread got me interested into how real life worms nervous systems are laid out... I totally love the dual brains idea on the other thread, and when I checked out real worms this is what I came away with when I combined reality with the idea of 2 brains: 

The Sathar nervous system has three parts: The Central Nervous System (CNS), Peripheral Nervous System (PNS), and the Sympathetic Nervous System (SNS). 

The CNS consists of Bilateral Symmetric pear shaped Brains. In addition circum-phryngeal connective bundles from the brains encircle the pharynx and then connect with a pair of sub-pharyngeal ganglia bundles located below the pharynx.

PNS nerves arise from each brain to supply the head (segment 1), buccal chamber (mouth) and pharynx. Three bundles of nerves arise from the sub-pharyangeal ganglia bundles to supply segments. Three pairs of nerve bundles extend from each segmental ganglia to supply various structures of the segments.

SNS This consists of nerve plexuses in the epidermis and alimentary canal (digestive track). (A plexus = A web of nerve cells connected together in a two dimensional grid.) The nerves that run along the body wall pass between the outer circular and inner longitudinal muscle layers of the wall. They give off branches that form the inter-muscukar plexus and sub-epidermal plexus. These nerves connect with the circum-pharyhgeal connective bundles. 

Based on depictions of RL worm nervous systems I think the Sathar “spinal cord” is dual and actually runs along the ventral side ("belly cords") of Sathar instead of the dorsal.

So I am thinking maybe theses guys are very tactile?

Worms in RL are born with their total number of segments and there is one species with little paddle claspers... so I counted the segments in the original art, including the head that equals 38. The one RL species with paddles has them near their sexual pores: So I suggest this for "natural matings" of Sathar and location of sexual organs. 

Sexual pores are located in segments where the tentacles are located, male pores are located at segment #12 and the female pores at segment #9. Each Sathar has two pairs of testes contained within sacs and four pairs of seminal vesicles produce, store and release the sperm vis the male pores. Ovaries and oviducts in segment #8 release eggs via female pores at segment #9. One pair of spermathecae are present in segments #10 and #11, which are internal sacs that receive and store sperm from the other Sathar during copulation. As a result, segment #12 of one Sathar exudes sperm into segments #10 and #11 with its storage vesicles of its mate. Sex pheromones are probably very important to Sathar mating. Facilitates out-crossing, identifying a mate, and attracting mate. 

Copulation and reproduction are separate processes in Sathar. The mating pair overlap front ends ventrally and each exchanges sperm with the other. The segments #10 and #11 becomes orange, or very reddish to very pinkish in color depending on the skin colors of the individual. Some time after copulation, long after the Sathar have separated, the Sathar secretes a material which forms a ring around the Sathar. The Sathar than backs out of this ring, and as it does so it injects its own eggs and the other Sathars’ sperm into it. As the Sathar slips out of the ring, and the ends of the cocoon seal to form a vaguely lemon-shaped incubator (cocoon) in which the embryonic Sathar develop. They emerge as small but fully formed Sathar, but lack their sex structures, which develop latter.

I noted the Sathar are slimy so that must serve a biological purpose for them... I have not researched slime yet on animals so I am wondering about that. I am wondering what sort of environment they would consider the best, most pleasant? Maybe something with a high humidity, high moisture in air?

I also noted though in art we show them using the bottom limb/tentacles as legs, the description of them clearly does not state that, they slither, they coil, and those "legs" get used for lifting heavy objects, no doubt the bottom limbs can help support the body and move them along as well, but if you forget about those bottom limbs being there it does change preferred architecture they might make, & because they can coil I am left wondering if they can strike out like snake? I am inclined to think maybe.

Also the numbers because they have a 4 tentacle fingered hand I am wondering if 4, 8 and multiples of those numbers might have cultural significance to them... just mussing on the wormies... Smile  
 "Never fire a laser at a mirror."
Comments:

jedion357's picture
jedion357
May 3, 2015 - 2:47pm
Great seminar, where was it held? University of Zebulon or University of Port Loren?
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

Tchklinxa's picture
Tchklinxa
May 3, 2015 - 6:07pm
How about Universtity of Port Loren ... Foot in mouth

I have a bunch of questions concerning worms in space, have to hit the NASA site and see what I can learn form their experiments next.
 "Never fire a laser at a mirror."

jedion357's picture
jedion357
May 3, 2015 - 6:22pm
You go girl, I would love to read a Sathar Summit presentation on the biology and nervous system of the sathar.
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

Tchklinxa's picture
Tchklinxa
May 3, 2015 - 8:41pm
Well I found the bit on the slime... super important and might even explain why some UPF medicine has failed to revive Sathar. I doubt the freeze fields are keeping the skin moist enough... also even though the book says they might be Warm-blooded they could be cold like real worms.

So the Slime:

The slime produces Nitrogen. If a Sathars' skin dries out, it will die. Sathar need moisture in their environment. The slime probably helps protect the Sathar as it breathes through it's skin using diffusion. For diffusion to occur the skin must be kept moist... dry skin equals suffication. So UPF medical tech like a freeze field probably kills them,

Now this means "clothing" must allow the Sathar to breath, it must allow the slime to keep the skin moist & allow for air circulation.




 "Never fire a laser at a mirror."

Tchklinxa's picture
Tchklinxa
May 4, 2015 - 4:59am
The fact they are slimy, means they leave slime, so their technology would need to be able to handle that... also would explain immune to electrical shock,... I did have the funny thought of Sathar slithering around all wearing white gloves like the Japanese do in bad Japanese sci-fi/monster films. Trying to walk on a Sathar ship might be a slip & slide experience for other races. I am thinking all their buttons are covered by a rubberized type material... or they might actually have partially organic ships. 

I think their slime layer interferes with the doze grenade gasses... which raises a question poison gas is it an issue for them?

I will need to do some anatomy art I think: 

They should have the ability to Regenerate some parts of body, like real worms.

The Ss'sessu Article gives some racial mods that tie to eyesight. Their ship tech should be more primitive than Sathar.

I think their ship habitats would be high humidity by our standards. I have an idea on how to keep them Cold Blooded but able to regulate their body temp like different species of worms can on earth. There is one that lives in glacial ice on this planet... though I need to think on preferred temp for race & gravity.

I am assuming a strike ability from a coiled stance will work out the math on that: because they move in slithering, wiggling ways it occurred to me they might not need stairs or ladders, snakes can climb by wrapping along limbs, so they might use a bar that is sort of like the ones for tomatoes or like some playground equipment.

Earth trivia biggest Earthworm ever found was 22 feet long. Eeek!

I think a Satharoid based medical lecture by an exchange Ss'sessu Professor for part of the series might be good. 


 "Never fire a laser at a mirror."

Tchklinxa's picture
Tchklinxa
May 4, 2015 - 10:47am
Satharoid Music: Language

On another thread the idea was put out there that because of their dual brains Satharoids can hold & are holding two conversations at once possibly in different languages.

I agree with this idea and wish to expand it: 
First a very human perspective on holding multiple conversations at once: I am capable of listening to multiple conversations spread around me and participating in them with out difficulty.
Also humans when using language often like to play with the meanings of words. What I am getting at here is we only have 1 brain and we often with known phrases, puns, metaphors and such create communication that has at least double meanings.

So the Sathar have 2 brains... I submit they can follow easily 2 conversations possibly more at once, they probably have specific ways of communicating in each conversation thread, there is probably at least 2 languages one for the Right Brain, one for the Left each with unique features. In addition they probably have technical languages that are very specific, or conditional languages for specific situations. If they have tonal languages in which the tone creates the meaning for the same sound then this complicates things greatly. I submit based on human word games the Sathar Races probably do too but at a level that makes human speech look feeble, we might get a double or maybe a triple meaning going but a Sathar could easily do better than that.  If you could translate say a Sathar ship's name it might have multiple meanings, let's say a ship is named "Plum" if translated into Pan-Gal, but what does that mean? Plum the fruit (is it a sweat fruit or sour fruit or poison to them), Plum the color (if so what does the color mean, blood, war, peace, good luck, wealth?), Plum a reference to sexual organs, or does "Plum" mean all of that to a Sathar at once?

This then leads us into writing, they probably have a very complex, morphic mixed up alphabet & symbol language... the Japanese use a multitude of symbols, I think last time I looked at a Japanese web site I counted 3 number systems, 1 native alphabet, Chinese symbols & Roman alphabet and English grammar marks, plus unique grammar marks... I submit Sathar might be a bit like that with possibly the Tibetan custom in which distinct languages where spoken up or down or across to individuals based on social position complete with different written systems. 

Next Music since the Satharoid is capable of following at least 2 probably more "conversations" and music is a form of communication, Sathar Races probably compose music that to outsiders is not harmonious but clashes and sounds like chaos but to a Sathar who can process it differently is complex and filled with distinct layers of meaning and oh so nice, while every one else is hearing the worst noise ever.


There would be jokes about S'sessu Opera for sure by the Core 4, & the S'sessu would consider Core 4 music & literature simplistic in nature. 
 "Never fire a laser at a mirror."

Tchklinxa's picture
Tchklinxa
May 4, 2015 - 9:03pm
I was thinking about the baby sathar cocoon today along with Sathar foods and what they would like from the Frontier races if they traded. I figure omnivores biologically, S'sessu are, (I thought of some cool domestic S'sessu crops & animals, and gross cooking methods) but I am going to make the Sathar mainly Vegetarian (even though they are still biologically omnivores) in my setting.  

Also the wormies have a gizzard which has stones in it to aid digestion, so this got me thinking about caste/class gizzard stones: most would have probably non fancy stones, but maybe high class or high caste Satharoids would have gizzard stones that are fancy (precious stones). There might even be a custom of gifting fancy gizzard stones amongst Satharoids.

On the cocoon I think I am going with the egg that hatches first devours the sibling eggs as food till it hatches out... somehow this fits the Satharoid races I think.


 "Never fire a laser at a mirror."

Tchklinxa's picture
Tchklinxa
May 5, 2015 - 12:23pm
What if the UPF can still not translate Sathar even after the S'sessu enter the picture is because of a cultural attitude to boot. So my thought is S'sessu will only speak Pan Gal when non S'sessu are in the room or not at all. They learned enough Pan-Gal from the siezed ship, set up trade and treaties with the UPF all in Pan Gal. When asked to speak S'sessu they always respond in Pan-Gal "that is inappropriate"... basically culturally Pan-Gal has become the language to use with outside cultures, and if pushed as to why inappropriate they will respond with "only S'sessu speak S'sessu, to learn S'sessu you must be/become S'sessu". Now this sounds rude outsiders who want to learn their language, but not them because of them using specific languages to communicate to superiors in, to lessers in, to equals in, and so on... basically in their social convention views Pan-Gal is the only correct language to use.
 "Never fire a laser at a mirror."

iggy's picture
iggy
May 5, 2015 - 3:45pm
I like this deep analysis you are doing.  Compiling this with the details in other posts and Imperial Lord's  work would be great.

I like the precious stones for gizzard stones.  This makes a natural loot for PCs to gather.  I imagine that Sathar grave yards are littered with them.  Also clans could collect the stones from noted members as an honor.  Maybe even ships would keep only the stones from dead crew so they would have a treasure chest on board.  Of course this is only a practice among the highest castes as others are too low to be regarded as worthy of jem stones.

I also like the angle of the first born eating the others that have not yet hatched.  Maybe this is also part of the upper castes and a sign of status to have eaten more of your siblings than another.  Think of the Sathar baby that is eating the others and then another hatches and evades.  The evador takes some of the first born's status, especially if it can eat some of the siblings and survive being eaten by the first born.

I imagine cannon fodder Sathar are separated from their siblings at birth to keep the numbers up and are thus not valued in society because they were supposed to be food for the first born.
-iggy

Tchklinxa's picture
Tchklinxa
May 5, 2015 - 6:13pm
Thanks Iggy and Imperial Lord has done some great stuff. I need to order my notes & his stuff and put a unified whole together or at least some sort of resource people can draw on as they choose or not to. 

Separating the lower caste might effect those offspring's IQ too, I mean the strongest would normally stay in the cocoon longer developing more fully by eating the siblings and then finally eating through the cocoon, so the process of separating the new borns might result in them being "born" premature but then boosted with meds & nutrients to develop them but the effect would keep them lesser in abilities IQ wise. Perfect fodder. I like the idea of status being gained through eating ones siblings. The stealing status in a twin birth is a very good twist, the two Siblings would not have fuzzy feelings, but would compete endlessly to prove who the true dominate one is. There would be Sathar & S'sessu epics about twin rivalry.

I was thinking for live stock the S'sessu would have creatures that produce bodily fluids in excess they can harvest/milk somehow without killing the critter.

Also imagine fields of huge putrid smelling pitcher type plants that have been domesticated, in which they place large larvae or meats in the plant which releases it's enzymes and breaks up the food and like Maple trees they harvest the goo from the plants of broken down animal juices.  

I am also pondering the idea of slave/status mentality... if Sathar society is based on the concept that every social strata is a slave to the next highest, where do the babies fit in? Owned slaves of the family (and how do I define "family" not sure the concept is even valid for Satharoids), of the clan etc... would clans sell members to other clans? The higher the price the offspring brings the higher status it has & the higher the status the seller gains? (Orions in ST)

Would for instance a Satharoid Civilian Captain purchase his crew? Do you sell yourself if not attached to a group? So would a S'sessu looking for a job, put themselves on the auction block? Just musing on how their world view would be so different.

Dead man's boots, to the victor go the spoils are also floating around in my mind too as moving up or down society for S'sessu.

I am inclined to think the Sathar upper caste members produce higher levels of pheromones that help control or bond the lower ones to them: (Orion slave girl thought) Where as the S'sessu do too but in much lower levels. A genetic difference that is small between the 2 groups but effects their societies.





 "Never fire a laser at a mirror."

Tchklinxa's picture
Tchklinxa
May 6, 2015 - 4:59am
After reading up on Sathar type digestive systems I noted the following:

Crop: Impacted Crop could kill a Sathar. Though no doubt the Sathar would have oils & medications to break down impacted food stuffs, surgery saves lives on this one.

Calcium Build-Up & Deposits: The Sathar digestive system is designed to break down and remove calcium before it hits the blood stream... therefore I submit Dairy Products & high Calcium foods taste yucky to Sathar, Calcium injected into their blood stream would be poison. There are probably genetic conditions that make them Calcium sensitive (or even allergic) or allow Calcium to slowly build up in their blood stream... causing painful deposits, blocking arteries & veins and so on.

Using Calcium to kill/poison a rival is probably an ancient and well known method.

Traditional Ancient weapons of the S'sessu & Sathar are made of animal Bone & Teeth. Projectiles that can slowly poison a Satharoid would have been more popular than a knife in my opinion. Modern weapons designed by Sathar for Sathar might include Calcium as a component. 

Sathar Teeth are more Cartilage based then like Mammal teeth I would think. Teeth/moth diseases would be similiar to diseases that attack our Cartilage in our joints & conective tissues. 


 "Never fire a laser at a mirror."

Tchklinxa's picture
Tchklinxa
May 7, 2015 - 4:46am
Calcium Bicarbinate would be a supplement or a way of making high Calcium food palatable.

Regeneration: I am given them both this... it needs stats: 

Regeneration:
It is known S’sessu can regenerate lost segments of their locomotion tail if death from bodily fluid loss and shock can be prevented. The S’sessu can also regenerate limbs. It is surmised the Sathar have similar regerorvative abilities. 

I think things should not grow back fast, & maybe a chance deformed? or shorter limb? Not sure

 "Never fire a laser at a mirror."

iggy's picture
iggy
May 8, 2015 - 12:10am
You mention status and buying and selling.  What if their society does not even have the concept of money.  What if their society is all about owning those under you and that is how you gain power.  Thus no sathar but the one on the top is free.  A ship captain actually owns his crew for eample.  When you are in the presence of someone higher in cast than you then you serve them and do what ever they want.  Thus the desire to break biology and make masses of sathar by stopping the babies from eating eachother and raising them into slave stock.  Hoowever this practice causes over population and conflict so the masses of slaves got turned into hordes of soldiers long ago.  This is a practice they have been following for all recorded history.  Only myths and legends speak of the societies before the hordes of slaves.  Also, the practice was marginally successfull prior to developing scientific medicine.  Now it is a perfected practice where all embrio survive.  And it is now done so much to power the clans with slaves that it is a big thing to choose  a cocoon to allow to develope naturally.

Anyway, the society is one giant pyramid scheme of slavery to the sathar above you.

BTW, where did you come up with the cocoon stuff?  Is it biologically accurate or plausible for their reproduction as detailed in AD?
-iggy

rattraveller's picture
rattraveller
May 8, 2015 - 3:41am
Not sure slavery would work Because of the Sathar's love of mass suicide. Slaves are valuable and just killing them off would mean a loss of value or prestige. In the slave south, slave owners would hire Irish or other poor whites for dangerous jobs like swamp drainage rather then risk valuable hard to replace slaves.
Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go?

Tchklinxa's picture
Tchklinxa
May 8, 2015 - 4:51am
Good points on the status is what causes the slavery type mentality, I need to read more in here and reread some of the Sathar articles... iggy

On the coccoon it is based on first biology of a RL worm, they lay eggs inside a coccoon basically as described, but the eating each other is based on shark species biology. It just sort of seemed right, I do not think there is anything in SF material, but psychologically & physiologically it just seemed like a nice fit.

In the back of my mind is if they where an uplifted race & genetically modified to be warriors, then you would want only the strongest children... once the controling species is gone, then the Sathar began to develop differently. It is possable the Proto-Sathar exists but is not as developed, maybe intelligent but not tweeked in certain ways.
 "Never fire a laser at a mirror."

Tchklinxa's picture
Tchklinxa
May 8, 2015 - 4:54am
I have been thinking about the mass suicide thing too...

If Sathar are addicted to the pheromones of the upper caste in their groups then removal of the pheromones might cause the behaviour.

Could be a chip implant... that weird science.

Could be a status warrior code issue.

Kicking ideas around
 "Never fire a laser at a mirror."

Tchklinxa's picture
Tchklinxa
May 8, 2015 - 5:01am
One more thing, weird science of Sathar is biological + machine usually, the ships are very different looking, segmented in a way... what if & this is a big what if the ships are partly biological, a Sathar brain that looses status if taken alive runs the ship thus the melt down, or maybe the ships are just programed to go boom if boarding is immanent. Maybe the ships are based on the genetics of "the great worm" from Imperial Lord's ideas... just musing on the ships a bit.
 "Never fire a laser at a mirror."

jedion357's picture
jedion357
May 8, 2015 - 5:40pm
Another issue with sathar ships is the potential use of a tubed brain. -a plugged in brain with all its ablitity to carry on multiple conversations could monitor and opperate multiple ship systems freeing the "crew" from having to operate the ship.

Perhaps sathar that have had their skins dry out and suffer some brain damage from partial suffication are tubed- it saves their lives, allows them to perform a useful service etc.
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

iggy's picture
iggy
May 9, 2015 - 4:07pm
Maybe I shouldn't use the designation slaves for the sathar that are harvested from the coccoon en'mass and not allowed to develop properly.  These are tools to the rest of the sathar as they would have been food had they not been repurposed and developed to be simple mindless robots as it were.  They are cannon fodder and free labor.  They are not fellow sathar.  I'm trying to take an alien mental view here that  will be a real delima for PCs.
-iggy

Tchklinxa's picture
Tchklinxa
May 9, 2015 - 8:38pm
The fact the sathar don't cyborg all species is also interesting, sure there is some sort of vassal upper lower status thing going on but it is not like they cyborg whole planets... makes me think about the bowing contests I have ended up in, it seemed culturally no one knew what to do... first I had to get over the fact I was not raised to bow, and then I had a dilemma what is the correct angle, and worse the folks bowing to me also seemed confused where I fit in on social status so if they thought I bowed too low they would bow lower... no one was a slave to another, we just where having a cultural dilemma about who bowed the lowest or the same or less based on not just manners but something way more subtle... maybe the Sathar are sort of like that, not "slaves" but status sets what happens to ones brain, where you fit. So other cultures might be placed in a social status that gets them brain slaved others not and Sathar are similar treated based on status, beings that should be food but are allowed to live (such as saved Sathar, or near animal intelligent, or by what ever standard put them on the lowest strata get what seems to be slave labor treatment?) If the Sathar have a status culture combined with a warrior culture then some of this would make sense.
 "Never fire a laser at a mirror."

iggy's picture
iggy
May 9, 2015 - 10:17pm
You said something that gelled a thought in my mind, "or near animal intelligent".  What if the act of eating the siblings in the coccoon provides necessary nutients to the development of the sathar brain.  Those sathar that are harvested from the coccoon and placed in incubators do not get this and their brains do not develop beyond animal intelligence.  Hence the sathar willingness to take these "trained monkeys" and waste them as cannon fodder in battle.  They have an over abundance of them.  They take one coccoon and get hundreds by pulling them out and incubating them.  This could be a practice that goes back before their recorded history.  Their society has always had the lesser sathar that are in essence brain damaged.
-iggy

Tchklinxa's picture
Tchklinxa
May 10, 2015 - 8:32am
Yes, that is what I was thinking happens to the "saved" babies when you made the suggestion that the Sathar interfere now with the natural order of natural selection, none of the Sathar in that cocoon would be fully mentally developed, they would be born sooner, need more bio-medical & maybe even bionic/cyber support to survive (all doable with sathar future tech) but be mentally retarded compared to a Sathar that fights to be the only hatchling but brain develops fully by eating the others. The Sathar would probably see such "saved ones" as fulfilling certain society needs/rolls but that is all they will ever be useful to society for. Thus lowest status. This does not mean upper Sathar are cruel to them, just that they see the greatest way they can contribute is by fighting and dying for the Sathar way of life, or doing certain jobs/tasks that do not require higher skill abilities, or even saving lives by being used as lab animals in medical experiments... their sacrifices still bring honor to the clan, is for betterment of all Sathar, contributes to science, maintains Sathar Society for the greater good and so on.
 "Never fire a laser at a mirror."

Tchklinxa's picture
Tchklinxa
May 10, 2015 - 9:48am
I submit these horrifying realizations of just how deadly a Satharoid in motion could be:

<!--[if gte mso 9]> Normal 0 0 1 414 2360 19 4 2898 11.1539 <![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]> 0 0 0 <![endif]--> Sathars have incredibly muscular bodies despite the lack of a skeletal system:

Crawling/Slithering speed varies both within and among individuals. Satharoids crawl faster primarily achieving this by taking slightly longer strides but with slightly lower stride frequencies. Except for the head and anal segments, each segment carries bristle-like hairs used to anchor parts of the body during movement; satharoids have four pairs on each. Special ventral setae are used to anchor mating Satharoid by their penetration into the bodies of their mates. They must use the action of their segments and muscles to scoot their bodies across the ground. The underside of their bodies is specialized for this purpose like the tread on a tire. They have four main manners of movement: concertina, serpentine, sidewinding, and caterpillar. 

They can hang from branches and swing themselves into the air. Then by flattening their segments hydorstatically and making a side to side motion, they keep their bodies in the air long enough to glide for X yards before landing on the ground usually by using their lower limbs or into another tree grabbing branches with any or all 4 of their limbs. 

They can move about the water. They are capable of just sliding on the surface, using their limbs to add extra speed and  can swim underwater. 

Satharoids can coil their bodies and do so as a defensive mechanism and to see more clearly by gaining height. They do not need to be coiled to strike. They can strike (jump) quickly and can reach their target at a distance equal to their length. Sathar can also retract their rear segments  or front segments quickly as a defensive mechanism (it stands to reason they can expand said regions just as quickly to use as a strike mechanism, Sathar head-but, or tail-punch).

Satharoids can constrict squeezing another life form in order to prevent it from taking in air and thus killing it, while still having use of their limbs. 

Sathar can actually use their ability to constrict, coil and so on to climb while keeping all 4 limbs available for other activities. They can coil on a branch for instance hiding from above with their limbs available to grab or use a weapon. 

The lower limbs of the Satharoid in addition to being used as a second pair of holding and lifting limbs can be used to assist balance, brace the Satharoids body, supply extra body support when needed, and improve travel over difficult terrain.   

The lower limbs can be used to strike with in hand to hand combat with equal efficiency as the upper limbs, basically the Sathar gets 4 punching/kicking strikes, & as the lower limbs are stronger than the upper they do more damage. 

Because of the dual brain Sathar have no handiness issues, (ambidextrous) and because of the dual brain and nerve cords both nerve cords must be damaged to fully paralyze a Satharoid, they might not be able to move well or use one side of their body but the one functioning side will still be able to take action.  

Also we should consider if a severally injured or panicked Sathar is capable of a thrashing movement (the worm wiggle) with its body that could damage as well to anyone accidentally hit... it would be a reflex thing I think.

I submit that by looking at potential movement abilities (which based on AD is both snake like and worm like) these guys can do way more than what I originally imagined.    
 "Never fire a laser at a mirror."

Tchklinxa's picture
Tchklinxa
May 10, 2015 - 3:13pm
<!--[if gte mso 9]> Normal 0 0 1 172 982 8 1 1205 11.1539 <![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]> 0 0 0 <![endif]--> <!--StartFragment-->

 

HEARING, Taste & Smell:

The Satharoid ear is covered by a membrane which protects a very complicated hearing system that is equal to a Humans.

 

 The special pits located near their eyes is now known to detect small changes in temperature as well as help them smell, but their sense of smell is less developed than a human’s. It should be noted that what smells good to a Satharoid may not smell good to other races.

 

There tongue is snake like and they posses a more sensitive sense of taste than a human’s.

 

Their eyes do not move inside their head and they do not have common eyelids. This allows them to be aware of the heat given off by bodies. A Satharoid’s double pupils give it superior all-round vision, allowing it to see in several directions at once. A Satharoid always has a +2 Initiative Modifier because of its excellent vision. The double pupils are capable of all dilating independently from small pin points to long wide slits as needed by the Satharoid to focus or hypnotize others. Satharoid eyes come in a range of very striking vibrant colors. The ability of the Satharoid races to process large amounts visual information is amazing and tied to their double brains.


Circulatory System:

 

Another important organ system is the circulatory system. The Satharoid has a closed circulatory system. It circulates blood exclusively through vessels. There are three main vessels that supply the blood to organs. These vessels are the aortic arches, dorsal blood vessels, and ventral blood vessels. The aortic arches function like a human heart. There are five pairs of aortic arches, which have the responsibility of pumping blood into the dorsal and ventral blood vessels. The dorsal blood vessels are responsible for carrying blood to the front of the body. The ventral blood vessels are responsible for carrying blood to the back of the body.

 

How Satharoids Regulate Their Body Temperature:

 

It was originally theorized that Sathar where warm-blooded, it is now know after contact with the S’sessu they are technically a Cold-blooded species with unique abilities to regulate their temperatures. The sense pits contain specialized heat-sensing organs that allows them to regulate their response to high and low temperatures. Their body does this by releasing various hormonal steroids that speed up or slow down their metabolism to compensate for the temperature change. They can withstand similar temperature ranges humans can withstand

Respiratory System & Satharoids are Slimy:

 

Satharoids do not have lungs. They breathe through their skin. Oxygen and carbon dioxide pass through the their skin which must be kept moist. Body slime is released to keep its skin moist and acts as a protective barrier. Dorsal pores and nephropores exude a fluid that moistens and protects the Satharoid's surface. This slime serves several purposes, it is what makes the Satharoid races immune to electrical shock and the effects of doze grenades (poison gas grenades have ½ the effect on Satharoids because of this barrier).

 

If a Satharoid’s skin dries out, it will die

 

Why Sathar and S’sessu wear clothes:

Satharoid wear clothing not only for environmental conditions but also to interact with alien species and their technology.

 

S’sessu when using technology not developed to withstand their slimy secretions wear gloves for instance. When traveling amongst other races Satharoids are often clothed in special materials, suits, or even cloak like outfits that still allow them to move efficiently, breathe correctly, but does not leave a thin trail of slime that other races find offensive.

 

 

 

 

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 "Never fire a laser at a mirror."

jedion357's picture
jedion357
May 11, 2015 - 4:10am
Tchklinxa wrote:
The lower limbs can be used to strike with in hand to hand combat with equal efficiency as the upper limbs, basically the Sathar gets 4 punching/kicking strikes, & as the lower limbs are stronger than the upper they do more damage. 

Because of the dual brain Sathar have no handiness issues, (ambidextrous) and because of the dual brain and nerve cords both nerve cords must be damaged to fully paralyze a Satharoid, they might not be able to move well or use one side of their body but the one functioning side will still be able to take action.  

Also we should consider if a severally injured or panicked Sathar is capable of a thrashing movement (the worm wiggle) with its body that could damage as well to anyone accidentally hit... it would be a reflex thing I think.


The standard rule in SF is 1 hand to hand strike per hand foot combination thus human, yazirian, and vrusk all get a total of 2.

Clearly your porposal violates this rule however I think the rule was about game balance where player characters are concerned. If you were to give a sathar 4 hand to hand attacks then I would make it clear that its because of their dual brain, however one might counter that the point of the 1 hand/1 foot combination is also about leverage and the sathar will need half of its appendages for leverage in making proper attacks.
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

Tchklinxa's picture
Tchklinxa
May 11, 2015 - 4:53am
True, and good point: here is my thought:

The actual foot or locomotion part of the Sathar is their 2 meter tail section which is designed to grip, their clothing would be designed for them to do so as well. So that is their feet & legs and they would know how to brace themselves with that.

The lower appendages are heavy lifting limbs not legs & feet, they can be used for extra support of course but not their primary purpose. So multi-strike ability did make sense to me in violation to the rules (but I recognize that is my take), but maybe the question really is how fast can a Sathar strike in 6 seconds... what are the not just capable of thinking of doing in 6 seconds but physically pulling off in 6 seconds.

I am capable of thinking of a lot of things in split seconds especially when I know what ever is about to happen is going to really hurt. Suddenly my brain is going way faster than the body or any limb can be moved, on the other hand in these situations I have no idea how much Real Time is passing, as my concept of time is disrupted in such situations. Time seems to slow, and no matter how hard one tries to move in those split seconds you physically can't, but you can sure contemplate "this is going to hurt", "this is the blank injury I am about to get", "do I have my medical card on me?" and "why can't I move my body part faster"... but 6 seconds is time to move.

So that is Q, is 6 seconds not enough time to do more than 2 limb attacks?



 "Never fire a laser at a mirror."

TerlObar's picture
TerlObar
May 11, 2015 - 6:30am
I'd say probably yes.  Go get some boxing footage when they are really just trading blows, time 6 seconds, and see how many they trade.  For an average, time a round and count total blows by each fighter.  But I suspect 6 seconds is more than enough time.
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Tchklinxa's picture
Tchklinxa
May 11, 2015 - 11:03am
That is a good idea TelObar: So I poked around: My problem is even though it is doable to do say 8 punches a second, that is speed punching, not combat (watched a few examples of it on Youtube). But one guy tried doing the martial arts punching no bag 115 in a minute, and then with a bag he said 70 in 30 seconds and that was all he could do, it burned bad, so that works out to 2 punches per second rounded down for a human hitting a bag, but the other combatant will be moving around & trying to hit back too & you want good impact not just fast wimpy strikes, so this idea of 4 punch/kick combo in a 6 second space is open to debate. I am inclined to think they can do it after watching youtube and reading various sites, peoples counting of various boxers, there stabs at figuring out realistic versus fast wimpy punching... but would it make them too deadly?

I want to point out I am pushing the envelope on some things no doubt or just throwing ideas out after researching worms, lampreys, sharks, ostriches, reptiles & snakes... and how those real animals might help me understand the potentials & limitations of our Fantasy Beasty. 

Example: 1st born eating the unhatched siblings (from sharks), Sathar don't blink have no eye lids (from snakes), gliding based on snakes (but seemed doable).

I forgot to add worm slime gives off Nitrogen, smart PCs could use that to hunt or evade Sathar.

So anything I am guessing at or tossing out is worthy of discussion. Like the gliding idea I figure they can flatten themselves a bit, definitely use that to get into tight spaces and hide, but can they glide & even if we determine it is possible do we want them doing X, Y or Z. 

Sathar are 3.5 meters long & weight 55 kg so weight range they are similar to Yazirian weights, but longer/taller than all the Core 4... I think we think of them maybe smaller than they are. They would be rather impressive I think.

I have a knack for turning already dangerous things into down right deadly, so I do worry about TPKing folks, aka game balance. On the other hand maybe refs might want to surprise PCs with something new like Kung Fu Ninja Sathar Elite Troops or Gliding Sathar versus Gliding PC Yazirians in combat situation. I know it would surprise me as a PC.

Again too I am mulling over the idea another race took the proto-Sathar and turned them into warriors. If I was said mad-scientist alien race: Why choose them? What made them worthy of being uplifted for the purpose of being soldiers? What natural qualities did they posses that could be adapted easily to combat? Or conversely if they naturally evolved into a warrior society: What has physically made them a threat, a real threat to other races? What traits would get them there, work to their advantage? 

I am trying to look at them from different angles. 

 "Never fire a laser at a mirror."

TerlObar's picture
TerlObar
May 12, 2015 - 7:13am
I'd almost say no to the gliding idea.  Yazirian gliding is problematic as it is from a physcial perspective.  I did a big analysis once upon a time that I've posted here and there (actually I don't remember if it was here or on the MIA starfrontiers.org forums.  I need to do a full writeup and put it in the zine.  But in any case, the Sathar would be even less likely to be able to do it successfully.
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Tchklinxa's picture
Tchklinxa
May 12, 2015 - 11:52am
 I had not tried to even figure out the "physics" of it, I just know snakes can flatten themselves out and launch themselves and glide pretty darn far. Which got me thinking along those what if lines.

Of course technology can achieve results, so Sathar with rocket packs is an option. Wink 

Yep Yazi gliding is more cinematic I think. Especially the way those skin flaps are drawn, I think if there was no gaps it would be closer to reality.

Which brings me to a Sathar Q concerning art... I am using AD for my anatomy clues, but Alternity pic has the sex organs located in the tail (not the best place, nor really right for worm research I did), and some people draw the limbs far apart like AD or close together... so should I be a bit vaguer about sexual organ location, or just keep it as I have it more detailed?


 "Never fire a laser at a mirror."