 February 22, 2015 - 1:41pm | Sometimes you find the oddest things in the timeline, I openned the book and my eyes fell on this: 81FY Sathar Fleet 1 attacks Madderly's Star. They encounter the new Spacefleet fortress Kdikit. Its resistance is fierce and buys the needed time for reinforcements to arrive. Dramune sends three frigates and a destroyer from its militia while the UPF dispatches two destroyers and two light cruisers from its non-attached ships roster. Right away some things and questions jump out at me: 1. the space fortress at Madderly's STar is new, setting wise that means it was under construction for a time before the war. So during the period between SW1 & SW2 it was a major public work being built and impacting the economy at Madderly's star. This is significant if PCs are travelling through the system and may figure into an adventure if they are a freighter crew bringing parts and materials for the space fortress. 2. Dramune sent what? Dramune doesn't have a system government but rather two separate and sometimes warring governments. Image the negotiation that had to go on for the two governments to work together to do this? Or did Inner Reach simply send the ships and hoped that Outer Reach wouldn't go "fishing in troubled waters?" I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 February 22, 2015 - 2:40pm | This is why I am never quick to cite Zeb's Guide. Political and religious discussions on facebook feeds make more sense. |
 February 22, 2015 - 2:47pm | What jumped out to me was the, "non-attached ships roster". This implies to me that they have a few more ships than they need at the moment. They must have needed more in the past and anticipate needing them in the near future hence they are crewed and not just moth balled. -iggy |
 February 22, 2015 - 5:56pm | Iggy there is another explanation for non-attached ships roster. Spacefleet is organized around the battleships into fleet groups. This is standard practice today with ships grouped around aircraft carriers. This group includes not only combat but support ships like supply carriers and fuelers. Non-attached ships are those not in a battle group. This does not mean they are extra but that they are assigned duties not within a battle group. These duties are numerous such as training, convoy escort, diplomatic missions, patrol of areas with low risk, guarding systems or stations, exploration or pretty much anything the Enterprise ran around and did. These ships are not always alone. They can be grouped in twos, threes or more for a temporary mission and then broken up again once it is over. Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go? |
February 23, 2015 - 1:58am | Actually KHs does say that there are patrol groups besides what is listed in the order of battle for Strike force Nova and etc. Its cannon and it explicitly says there are more ships than what is listed in the campaign game. It also suggested that a typical patrol group might be a frigate and 2 assault scouts, which made little sense in that there is a major diference in the number of void jumps those ships can make before requiring an overhaul. Patrol group goes somewhere and 2/3s of its ships cant patrol because they have to overhaul engines. Pair of frigates makes more sense to me. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 February 23, 2015 - 3:00pm | The Order of Battle in KH is not fixed, so the three fleets -- each centered around a flagship Battleship -- can choose which ship is in active service at one time, with some put into reserve. In the Second Sathar War scenario, 8 ships and 4 Fighters start out in reserve (called "Non-Attached Ships") but they maybe freely assigned by the player -- who assumes the role of the supreme fleet commander of the UFP.
In the above, a Patrol Group scouts ahead of the main fleet. They Jump ahead of the Task Force or Strike Force and report their findings by subspace radio. A Strike Force is how a Task Force splinters itself off if the fleet needs to be at two places at once. |
February 24, 2015 - 11:58pm | To Zeb's credit, if "Dramune" were to send three frigates and a destroyer that represents every capital ship from the KH Campaign Manual between both systems, leaving assault scouts behind to defend the two worlds. I chalk it up to one more accident that Zeb's got right...even a broken clock is right twice a day. |
February 25, 2015 - 1:52pm | Maybe, maybe not. Since Inner and Outer Dramune do not get along (three wars) and Outer has alot of pirate friends, wonder what the surviving Inner ships found when they got back? More like the Zeb guys read the roster but did not think through the political ramifications. Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go? |
February 26, 2015 - 11:55am | They read enough to include three civil wars in their timeline. Maybe they forgot about that part... |
 February 26, 2015 - 2:41pm | Perhaps, you can run the engines enought to patrol in system, while doing the overhauls? Actually KHs does say that there are patrol groups besides what is listed in the order of battle for Strike force Nova and etc. Its cannon and it explicitly says there are more ships than what is listed in the campaign game.
It also suggested that a typical patrol group might be a frigate and 2 assault scouts, which made little sense in that there is a major diference in the number of void jumps those ships can make before requiring an overhaul. Patrol group goes somewhere and 2/3s of its ships cant patrol because they have to overhaul engines. Pair of frigates makes more sense to me. ----------------------------------------------- |
February 26, 2015 - 5:42pm | Perhaps, you can run the engines enought to patrol in system, while doing the overhauls? Actually KHs does say that there are patrol groups besides what is listed in the order of battle for Strike force Nova and etc. Its cannon and it explicitly says there are more ships than what is listed in the campaign game.
It also suggested that a typical patrol group might be a frigate and 2 assault scouts, which made little sense in that there is a major diference in the number of void jumps those ships can make before requiring an overhaul. Patrol group goes somewhere and 2/3s of its ships cant patrol because they have to overhaul engines. Pair of frigates makes more sense to me. Yeah that's probably a good adaption. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
 February 27, 2015 - 9:55am | The wars between Inner and Outer Dramune never made sense to me, given that Outer Dramune seems to be an anathema to any sort of centralised government or control and is generally a 'dodgy' place. Maybe Inner Dramune could muster ships but I doubt anything came from Outer Dramune. |
February 27, 2015 - 2:48pm | Overhauling is simply mandated for the next jump, not a drive disabling factor. You can still make another jump without performing the work, although you can inherit penalties that range from misjumping/not jumping to slagging the drive. |
February 28, 2015 - 12:01pm | Yes I too have a hard time seeing Outer Reach mustering a fleet for war three times. I rather see then building massive raiding groups with the intenet of pillaging Inner Reach and stopping then from hindering their elicit activities. Inner Reach is likely motivated to assert sovereignty over Outer Reach in the name of peace, law, and order, to unify the system under one government. A war started over a series of raids by Outer Reach would likely be followed be a second initiated by Inner Reach when they perceived Outer Reach was getting too strong and agressive again. The cause of the third war could be for many reasons and thats where I get uncomfortable with the Mather haveing that the resources to build fleets. I need some arguments for this to expand my thinking. -iggy |
March 1, 2015 - 6:11am | Any ships from the Outer Reach wouldn't be organised in any big way. Possibly opportunist raiding by individual ships might happen once in a while. There may be quite a few ships at Outer Reach at any one time, but they're there to conduct 'business' planetside, or for crews to rest over in a relatively safe environment. The planet may be run or part-run by various warlords with a network of Mafia-like alliances, but getting to and from the planet from orbit is relatively open. Once you're on the ground and anywhere near population centres, things get a little different  As for Inner Reach, maybe it has enough ships to act as a deterrent, knowing full well that the Outer Reach cannot muster any force to act as a coherent threat. It may actually be involved in actively destabilising the pattern of forces on Outer reach, just to keep things under some sort of control. Outright war between the two planets seems very unlikely IMHO. |
 March 1, 2015 - 12:11pm | I would like to point out one can be independent, a criminal, and so on but recognize "Sathar" bad, bad for business, bad for anyone living you care about... and even criminals can be oddly patriotic at times. It is possible Outer Reach agreed to help and send help either because they did not want Sathar to reach their system, Sathar would be bad for business, or they would rather kill Sathar any day then fight with Inner Reach. Remember organized crime is business, and a good chunk of legitimate government business is just a step away from being organized crime (only not a crime because the law is in the governments favor). Shoot outs are bad business, and laws help drive prices up on smuggled goods, so Outer Reach needs law abiding governments, and sometimes law abiding governments need corrupt ones to get a job done... Outer Reach might have lot's of reasons for cooperating. I think we tend to see Outer Reach as a rag tag Pirate Fleet, but I think we should rethink them as organized crime government. I have a friend from an EU country that is not in the red, but she tells me the reason is they make their money building weapons and selling them globally, but there is no way all these arm deals are UN Law or EU Law legal in her opinion. She told me organized crime families run the country's economics but that does not mean those same folks don't take running the country serious, they do. So maybe Outer Reach is more like that sort of country. Such a country will have defense forces, after all you want the pirate/smuggler types doing business not raiding you or muscling in on your cut of the action. Just a thought. "Never fire a laser at a mirror." |
March 1, 2015 - 12:40pm | Well, I live in the EU (the UK, in fact) and it's not as lawless as your friend may make it seem  I don't think the Outer Reach would even consider sending a ship or two unless they were directly threatened - i.e., the Sathar entering the Dramune system. Maybe even then it might be the ships belonging to of one of the warlords. I imagine that any other ships and their crew would zip off elsewhere at the first sign of Sathar  I also don't see the Outer Reach as having any sort of centralised government like an EU country, so individualism may be more rampant. |
March 2, 2015 - 1:07am | Well, I live in the EU (the UK, in fact) and it's not as lawless as your friend may make it seem
Not to mention there are EU nations that really aren't good examples of successful government either. Spain and Greece immediately come to mind. |
March 2, 2015 - 5:45am | I was not saying all EU nations, I am thinking of a specific one, and they are not lawless per say... well going with the two independant theme maybe something happened in the Dramune system, maybe not in the book? "Never fire a laser at a mirror." |
March 2, 2015 - 7:54am | According to Zeb's Guide, Outer Reach has several moons that are being used as mineral resources, whereas Inner Reach only has one, used for agriculture. Both planets have armed space stations. If there was a split somewhere along their possibly shared history, maybe these sorts of things were contributing factors? Or possibly things just don't line up Maybe Inner Reach just helped to forment problems on Outer Reach to keep it unstable. Sure, there may be some piracy problems but perhaps it's nothing that Inner Reach can't handle. Maybe even Outer Reach just doesn't encourage meddling with Inner Reach shipping. |
March 2, 2015 - 12:43pm | To me, the Zeb timeline reads as: prehistoric setting stuff, that passed-over age that I rather be playing in, shoehorned canon, shoehorned canon, shoehorned canon, shoehorned canon, blah blah blah WWII in space, shoehorned canon, boring stuff, boring stuff, boring stuff, HELLO NURSE... For some reason, I really dig the new UPF uniforms.  |
March 3, 2015 - 4:13pm | The problem with that ideal is the eye candy in Zeb's was the only thing worse than the writing, editorial mishaps, and play-testing. |
March 5, 2015 - 3:46am | OK kids use those creative caps I gave you think about the Malthar and Cpt. Blackbeard. Here are some examples of the conversation they had before Blackbird and his three ships (two assault scouts and a destroyer) left for the Sathar War. 1) Look Blackbird forget about that huge debt you owe for that lost shipment. Just need you to link up with the Spacefleet and make a show we care about the rest of the Frontier. Unless you happen to have the credits on you? 2) Blackbird we found out Inner Dramune is sending some ships to rally with Spacefleet. Go with them and show the Frontier how much we care. Oh and if you find yourself in a situation where the Inner Dramune ships need some help and it doesn't arrive and they don't come back, oh well. 3) Blackbird UPF wants us to send some ships to help with the Sathar. Go and take your ships and "help" out. But first here is a list of contacts which can help with supplies that have come up missing and they need help finding. Also take the merchant Happy Times with you. Its cargo of gambling machines and companions will be a real boost to the troops morale. 4) (Malthar's Assistant) Hey Boss why did you send Blackbeard off to the Sathar War? Did you think he was planning on making a move against you and becoming the next Malthar? See not too hard to think like a criminal. Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go? |
March 5, 2015 - 5:58am | ROFL! I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
March 5, 2015 - 9:01pm | @rattraveller, What did you say your day job was? -iggy |
 March 5, 2015 - 9:56pm | Allong the same vane as rattraveller: A secret conversation between the UPF Admiral and the Malthar: "We could use your help at this moment." UPF "And what do I get in return for this help?" Malthar. "I think we could arrange something..." UPF |
March 6, 2015 - 2:26am | Although Blackbeard did not take orders, at least not after earning his surname. A secret conversation between Rear Admiral Oliver North and the Malthar:
Now THAT is entirely possible. |
March 6, 2015 - 3:20am | Although Blackbeard did not take orders, at least not after earning his surname. A secret conversation between Rear Admiral Oliver North and the Malthar:
Now THAT is entirely possible. I would have a been a Colonel sent to have that conversation with the Malthar which gives an admiral plausible deniability. I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers! |
March 6, 2015 - 8:51am | The Draume Run would play into this verison of events. Up until this point, the Malthar was allowed to build his priate empire due to the agreement between "officals" from the UPF. The fear of his robot army and other factors leads the UPF to taking him out in Draume Run. The rear admiral has a sudden 9mm heart attack and the issue has been resolved. |
 March 6, 2015 - 6:39pm | The Draume Run would play into this verison of events. Up until this point, the Malthar was allowed to build his priate empire due to the agreement between "officals" from the UPF. The fear of his robot army and other factors leads the UPF to taking him out in Draume Run. The rear admiral has a sudden 9mm heart attack and the issue has been resolved. Please. Nothing so vulgar as that the Admiral "retired" due to ill health and if he ever breaths a WORD about it to anyone his and all his families address and personal information will end up in the hands of victims of the Malthar and his pirates... The UPF would "regret" any such outcome of course but, say wouldn't the Admiral and his family be healthier on a nice colony world somewhere far away? We'll pay the transport fees of course... Randy |
March 7, 2015 - 2:47am | The Draume Run would play into this verison of events. Up until this point, the Malthar was allowed to build his priate empire due to the agreement between "officals" from the UPF. The fear of his robot army and other factors leads the UPF to taking him out in Draume Run. The rear admiral has a sudden 9mm heart attack and the issue has been resolved. Surely that robot army isn't much of a threat unless if can be transported off world? That would also make it vulnerable - i.e. they could all be destroyed in one ship. |
