"Official" timeline

FirstCitizen's picture
FirstCitizen
December 23, 2011 - 8:48pm
Is there an official timeline of the Frontier?

I've been reading a ton of the available information while working on my 'Mystery of Starium' adventure, and cross referencing items.  Working on the adventure setting/timeline I noticed some date differences and was wondering if the SF community recognized an official timeline?

From the Frontier timeline article in sfman #16, p44
Humans Arrive: 143pf  (what earth year did they leave, about 2150ad?)

Cassidine Colonized: 115pf
Dixon's Star route mapped: 80pf

Cassidine is discovered in 249pf in sfman #17, p71
Dixon's Star is colonized in 220pf in sfman #12, p45

So is the Frontier timeline article in sfman #16 the official guideline?
Comments:

AZ_GAMER's picture
AZ_GAMER
December 23, 2011 - 11:52pm
Well, the canon rules state that Humans in the frontier are not from Earth. There are a number of great theories floating around this site about where the human colonists came from. Some suggest that they are Earth humans that managed to get lost and somehow manage to make it to the frontier sector. Some suggest that they are of parrell evolution and are a non-terrestrial human spieces that have no connection at all to Earth that made their way to the frontier sector and either my accident or cataclysm are unable to return home or have no knowledge of their homeworld. One kind of esoteric theory is that the game setting universe does not have an Earth, that the homeworld of the humans is their "Earth" but Earth as we know it never existed at all and their youth may even play compu-games with their friends where they assume the roles of human or alien characters having adventures in this strange milkyway galaxy where they live on the third planet in the solar system. Work that over in your brain for a while....maybe there is an alien sitting on an asteroid in space that is just dreaming up all of our lives as part of a giant roleplaying adventure. Whhhhoooooooa, too much caffine, may have just unravelled the secret of the universe there. Shhhh don't tell.

Any way, I dont think it really matters if it 4 billion bc or 2150ad in Earth years as the rules suggest that the frontier humans are not from Earth. However, if you want to write them in, it is a roleplaying game, and you could alter the setting to fit your game any way you need to. 

AZ_GAMER's picture
AZ_GAMER
December 23, 2011 - 11:58pm

The basis of my comic book project was actually began as a Star Frontiers game that was based in an Earth-centric setting I invented when TSR pulled the plug on SF. My friends and I created a whole bunch of new races and concepts based on our favorite sci-fi inspirations and let the thing grow on its own. There were no Vrusk, Dral, Yaz or Zebs aliens as we had become a little tired of them and the traditional setting. Zeb's guide was the nail in the coffin for me, I so disliked the new rules that My friends and I wanted to go a new route. The point is, you can use the timeline in the books and zebs if you want as well as the great resources in the SFman or you can go your own way and write your own history so that it fits your game setting as needed.


jedion357's picture
jedion357
December 24, 2011 - 8:16am
Good question. Except there exists no complete agreement in canon material on the timeline. If you completely ignore Zebs and root through all the modules you probably have the fewest problem's with contradictions. However, the Zebs timeline has so much material its hard to ignore. I'd recommend looking up a general forum thread on What Will it Take to Fix the Timeline. It turned into more of a rant on what was wrong with it than anything else and lead to me just working on my own timeline. The bottom line is that without the IP owner coming out with an official timeline then you do what you want. I'm not sure I'd want to trust the IP holder to produce a timeline that wouldn't be all FUBAR. With the SFman submissions it's hard to tell if people double checked all the sources on dates and the editorial staff doesn't need to be fixing those. Besides its entirely possible they're working from their own timeline so in that case wrong dates are appropriate.
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

Shadow Shack's picture
Shadow Shack
December 24, 2011 - 11:59am
jedion357 wrote:
If you completely ignore Zebs and root through all the modules you probably have the fewest problem's with contradictions.

Sadly Zeb's completely ignored the canon material, hence the numerous contradictions.


Quote:
However, the Zebs timeline has so much material its hard to ignore.

Also true, it just needs some serious juggling around to coexist with the canon material.


I'm not overly fond of Zeb's Guide...nor do I have any qualms stating why. Tongue out

My SF website

jedion357's picture
jedion357
December 24, 2011 - 12:45pm
@ shadow: that was point of the previous timeline thread to work out semi- official timeline the majority can agree on but I've come to the conclusion that that is unlikely. What might be of use to the community is a compiled document called the Alpha timeline, as opposed to the Zeta timeline (straight Zebs Guide) then anyone who crafts an alternate time line would have their name on it like Shadow's or Jedion's.
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

thespiritcoyote's picture
thespiritcoyote
December 25, 2011 - 11:11am
Dear FirstCitizen,
Nothing official either supports or denies an Earth... i.e. the fluff text in deeper parts of the book give ambiguities of Humans coming from an "unnamed-earth" exodus into the frontier from quite a fair distance away just to meet the other two races (Vrusk and Dralasite), yet the "forward disclaimer" gives nothing but "standardized drivel" about how there is no connection to reality with this imaginary game and TSR is not responsible for your mental health...
Thus effectively officially stating it is up to a complete interpretation based on personal campaign needs and self-diagnosed psychological maturity.

The only other elements that connect in any official capacity are; the Gamma World and Metamorphosis Alpha (likewise presented as separate alt-verse information to Star Frontiers, but more officially Earth-centric.), A few Spelljammer and Mystara(Known World/Hollow World) references (Much less alt-verse [imho] as the connection to Mystara is a strong one as the planet does not exist in a standard SJ crystal sphere but a Milky-way variant with a loosely organized and economically weak Terran Confederation somewhere nearby), and finally the simi-official Alternity ret-con information that confirmed a place for the Sol System (as an official ret-con alt-verse fix and updated timeline and inclusion into the Stardrive setting)... Dragon*Star is the only other one that comes close and there are no references that I know of anywhere in the material, only a suggestion that the races may exist there also... The 4thEd Cosmology Redesign specifically removes all connection to any previous cosmology -or- is in it's self a local subjective interpretation of the multiverse and not representative of the whole fictional multiverse cosmology in objective actuality...

Either way an approximate is all that is likely, for whatever variant you decide to incorporate... SOMETHING happened to the "Earth"-That-Was and no official reconciliation is likely to be made in the setting... i.e the "E"TW is no longer on an officially BC/AD consistent calendar and don't know what year it is anyway... even if you make a stretch and pick-up the 2001/2010 models as part of the timeline... and use the Stardrive Campaign as it stands... earth never makes it to 2450 without a serious fall from a historical continuity... in order to make room for BRXXVC... however the Stardrive Setting likely Trumps BRXXVC, and the Metamorphosis Alpha Theory is suggesting that the collapse happened before the Stardrive setting and Trumps that... leaving you with, Gamma-world and the specific statements that no connection was ever intended beyond the humorous.

*phew* ... but sure, ~2150AD sounds good... or...
if you prefer, I am just full of useless information and wasted studies, having read far to many books on a physics of cosmology that doesn't exist, just for the thrill of the entertainment value...Laughing

[flashes geek-cred]Tongue out[to whomever thinks it matters]
Oh humans!! Innocent We discover a galactic community filled with multiple species of aliens, and the first thing we think about is "how can we have sex with them?".
~ anymoose, somewhere on the net...

so...
if you square a square it becomes a cube...
if you square a cube does it become an octoid?

TerlObar's picture
TerlObar
December 25, 2011 - 8:15pm
Actually, the opening lines in the Basic Rules book are:

"Basic Rules" wrote:

Near the center of a great spiral galaxy, where stars are much closer together than Earth's sun and its neighbors, a Human race developed.  They were not identical to the Humans of Earth, but they were not very different, either.


Those two lines pretty much state that the Humans in Star Frontiers are not from Earth.  It doesn't get much more canon than that.  I have no problem with a back story that brings humans from Earth, but technically, the rules explicitly say that they are not.
Ad Astra Per Ardua!
Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site
Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine
Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine

AZ_GAMER's picture
AZ_GAMER
December 25, 2011 - 9:36pm
I assume that the creators of SF were thinking along the same terms as in Dungeons & Dragons in that the game setting is in an alternate reality and not a historical one. Which makes a lot of sense as places like ravenloft, greyhawk, krynn, etc. never existed on Earth but their Earth was very similar to our own.

By developing an alternate reality for the setting it permits the freedom of the game writters and designers to create anything they want for the game setting without having to have it fit neatly into the a historical context.

In writting mhy own fictional universes timeline I have discovered that using the real Earth as backdrop I have to try and craft the timeline to match a plausible evolution from the world we understand today. It isnt always easy. It certainly would be easier to work with the clean slate of a distant galaxy and parrallel evolution like the humans of Battlestar Galactica or Star Wars. If your story runs into an inconsistency you can just write it into the alternate universe as a fact of life. When crafting a story based on our world's future their are certain truths and conditions that have to be maintained and addressed. I ended up having to scrub one of my own storylines because it ended up creating too many inconsistencies with the timeline, history, and at times our own human behavior.

I think the non-terrestrial human concept in SF is actually very helpful as it allows the ref to be more creative and construct their game world however they liked. This is the one reason I always preferred creating my own adventures over the stock setting modules.

jedion357's picture
jedion357
December 26, 2011 - 3:48am
I agree with the analysis of the inherent problems of earth being in the setting but alternate earths or whatever are indistinguishable from the real earth in the mind of your audience, unless you make of explicitly obvious that this is an alternate earth, as people hear the word earth and their brain automatically plugs in a meaning. One of the benefits of have an earth in the setting is 6000 years of history and culture to call on adding depth and texture to your setting. Having to extrapolate and account for the political realities of earth could be a pain; this is why I opt for earth exists but humanity is cut off from it. It lets me use ethnicity, culture, and literature references in a situation where humans were forced to establish their own political institution unbeholding to those of earth. Plus, if the fit takes me then I can always do a return to earth storyline.
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

iggy's picture
iggy
December 26, 2011 - 1:13pm
I have always gone with the "Basic Rules" quote as well and placed the frontier in another galaxy.  Note, I tried to do this with my Celestia Frontier add-on but Celestia didn't work well with stars placed outside the Milky Way so I put the Frontier near the center of the Milky Way in my Celestia add-on work.  But that still fits the basic rules statement.  Note to self, need to find or start an appropriate project to upload the Celestia Frontier add-on too.

I also have never had a problem with humans evolving somewhere else.  We are so primitive in our understanding of life beyond the Earth that no scientist can present a proven scientific model that prevents parallel evolution.  What's to say that the path our biochemistry has taken is not one of the most stable and
successful development paths.  But it is fun to have other races that are not just forehead of the week aliens.

Concerning using Earth cultures and history as game background, I have never needed it.  Not to say that I've never used it, just that I've never felt it was a game breaker to use Earth references to tell the story.  I have always enjoyed building a separate Star Frontiers history without the complexities of Earth history.  Star Trek has that problem and it shows all the time traveling the do to get around stuff.  Smile

The big problem I have never solved is the lack of homeworlds.  I just don't buy the story of four space faring races being all lost at the same time.  One maybe, two is a stretch, three and my brain locks up searching for solutions.
-iggy

AZ_GAMER's picture
AZ_GAMER
December 26, 2011 - 4:15pm

I know some folks don't like to use transversable wormholes in their SF game universe but it could make for a really believe-able reason as to why the human colonists are cut off from Earth or their Homeworld. The wormhole they were exploring becomes unstable after they exit it and are cut off by sheer distance alone and maybe lack or resources or fuel for the return trip.


jedion357's picture
jedion357
December 26, 2011 - 4:37pm
AZ_GAMER wrote:

I know some folks don't like to use transversable wormholes in their SF game universe but it could make for a really believe-able reason as to why the human colonists are cut off from Earth or their Homeworld. The wormhole they were exploring becomes unstable after they exit it and are cut off by sheer distance alone and maybe lack or resources or fuel for the return trip.

Except a exploration party might not hold enough genetic stock to restart a human civilization. I prefer a colony expedition that gets "lost in space" since it came to set up a colony its well prepared for this very risky venture. Ultimately, it doesn't matter if they're 4 light years from earth or four billion they are effectively on their own and planned for being on their own. I also like to spread out the home world explanations: one is a known frontier world, one is lost due to accident of space travel, one was destroyed due to natural disaster.
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

Inigo Montoya's picture
Inigo Montoya
December 27, 2011 - 1:17pm

The collapsed wormhole idea might be a good explanation as to how the route to the home world was misplaced. Scientists could have explored the region extensively and after many decades of research outposts they decided to embark on a grand colonization scheme. This colony could have existed a few years or a few centuries when the wormhole suddenly collapsed without warning.  Humanity will have had the chance to become rooted on a world, but not to the point where they are a galactic power.


Shadow Shack's picture
Shadow Shack
December 27, 2011 - 2:11pm
The other big issue with the Zeb line is the overly rapid expansion and population boom. It's taken Earth tens of thousands of years for humans to get to our current population levels, and with very few exceptions most nations have not filled a majority of their available land. How the Froniter is able to overcome that obstacle in a matter of a few hundred years...denizens of the Frontier must reproduce like rodents, having litters of offspring and within a month later giving birth to more litters of offspring.
I'm not overly fond of Zeb's Guide...nor do I have any qualms stating why. Tongue out

My SF website

TerlObar's picture
TerlObar
December 27, 2011 - 2:45pm
We had some discussions about population numbers on the .org site a long time ago.  I posted some number in this thread on populations giving the population after a given numbers of years of colonization.
Ad Astra Per Ardua!
Webmaster - The Star Frontiers Network & this site
Founding Editor - The Frontier Explorer Magazine
Managing Editor - The Star Frontiersman Magazine

Shadow Shack's picture
Shadow Shack
December 27, 2011 - 9:10pm
Considering SF humans have double the lifespan of Earth humans, one could speculate their birthing periods are also doubled. Meaning those biological clocks are ticking not up to age 40 but 80. Still, that wouldn't account for the massive population explosion over a few hundred years to outlying systems.

Take Zebulon for example. Not the much debated Guide to Frontier Space, but the actual star system in the game.

The "official" (I use the term loosely, only because it's the only one published by the source) time line states it was discovered in p.f.61 --- which is wrong according to the modules since the players are already aware of the Sather who, according to the timeline, first appear in p.f.3 --- but for the sake of arguement let's just say pf61 is correct. According to the time line text, Volturnus was "settled almost immediatey" while Anker "was discovered but not settled until pf57". By fy111, when the Zeb's Guide is in "modern day Frontier life", Volturnus has a "light" population and Anker is a "medium" population. In other words, within a span of 172 years two planets go from "undiscovered" to "fair sized populations", a time frame that according to AD lifespans can be witnessed by a single human's natural life expectancy.

The "oldest" discovered-to-populated world mentioned in the time line is Fromeltar, discovered in pf302. In a span of 413 years two worlds are discovered and popluated, one to "light" and "heavy" for the other.

The "youngest" world is Mechan, discovered in fy77 and 34 years later it is a "heavy" population. Entirely feasible, since the primary inhabitants are robots who migrated from Volturnus --- meaning at one point Volturnus WASN'T a light population, and since the Mechanons were there before the planet was discovered... okay let's back up to fy66 when Solar Minor is discovered and developes not one, but two "light" populations of Core Four beings in the next 45 years. Let's back up a bit more to the last "AD World" that was founded, Morgaine's World...founded after the first sathar war in FY1. 110 years later it has a "moderate" population. Yes sir, young recruits from the first sathar war are still alive and kicking today having witnessed a complete world go from zero to hero.


It certainly begs the question: "Where are all these colonists coming from in such a short span of time?"
I'm not overly fond of Zeb's Guide...nor do I have any qualms stating why. Tongue out

My SF website

jedion357's picture
jedion357
December 27, 2011 - 9:22pm
Re: population densities and homelworlds. 1). vrusk have only one heavy population world: terledrom, all the other colonies are less settled. And the population of terledrom could be considered to be about split with dralasites. Drals have two worlds inner reach and Groth. Outer reach could be considered to be multi racial. Yazirians had an Exodus and that could explain their population levels. In my opinion the only racial numbers that need explaining are those of humans. Though, by tracking the links Terl Obar provided perhaps they are not that hard to explain.
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

rattraveller's picture
rattraveller
December 28, 2011 - 8:39am
When it comes to population there are some things to consider. First after a war there is always a population boom. Something to do with the stress and biological need to replace losses. So some expansion is logical.

Next these are frontier worlds. Settled populations like the US and Europe are not expanding and even contracting while less developed nations are booming. Frontier worlds require more beings and the need is usually met.

While the Frontier is not to far in advance of Earth technology they are advanced. We can safely assume that they have a much lower infant and child mortality rates than we do. (Look the rates up they are scary). Also contraception and pregnancy would be more successful with the advent of better medicine and alternate ways of concieving children would be available. Not talking cloning just better fertilization.

A subconscious measure of population increase would be competition. We have four main and many other races. Each are highly competitve. Each would want to be number 1 and each would make population one of those areas they would want to be on top.
Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go?

thespiritcoyote's picture
thespiritcoyote
December 28, 2011 - 7:12pm
My books said that the tachyon communications were the first contact method the Humans had with the Dralasites and Vrusk, who were already planning a meet & greet social, and that first physical contact happened in an unspecified location near Prenglar some time after entering the sector, the Vrusk came from far beyond the Xygag, the Dral and the Humans from nearly as far away in other directions... the Yaz were discovered later as natives near the Yreva. This information was pilfered from many different locations throughout the books, while making notes on every aspect relevant to first contacts.
It is not a process I care to repeat, it took months, so I apologize for my lack of citing specific references.

[quote "forward disclaimer"]
Near the center of a great spiral galaxy, where stars are much closer together than Earth's sun and its neighbors, a Human race developed.  They were not identical to the Humans of Earth, but they were not very different, either.


This "standardized drivel" in the front of the book about Earth is specifically what I referenced in my description, and it says exactly that, exactly as I described...
Oh humans!! Innocent We discover a galactic community filled with multiple species of aliens, and the first thing we think about is "how can we have sex with them?".
~ anymoose, somewhere on the net...

so...
if you square a square it becomes a cube...
if you square a cube does it become an octoid?

Shadow Shack's picture
Shadow Shack
December 29, 2011 - 12:19am
jedion357 wrote:
1). vrusk have only one heavy population world: terledrom, all the other colonies are less settled.

Which actually makes sense, considering Terledrom is in the oldest system (Fromeltar, discovered in pf302). No way should the younger systems have such high populations as such.

Here's some fun to back up the timeline and population inconsistencies. Compare the populations from p40 of the AD Expanded book and those listed in Zeb's Guide. We'll assume AD is referencing Zebulon exploration time (wherever you want to place that, but Zeb's mistakenly does it 60+ years too soon). Only FOUR planets saw population changes between those two lists, from a time span of pf61 to fy111:

1> Laco goes from outpost to moderate
2> Morgaine's World also goes from outpost to moderate
3> Hakosoar goes from light to moderate
4> Pale goes from moderate to heavy

Granted K'tsa-Kar was neglected from the AD list, but is listed as a light population in the Zeb's Guide.

So it still begs the question...in that brief time span where did all these core four population numbers come from to not only expand the population of four worlds but explore/develope/populate Devco (light), Snowball (light), Moonworld (heavy), CorpCo (light), Exodus (moderate), Genesis (outpost), Alcazzar (light), Ringar (moderate), Circe (light), Kir'-Kut (light), Starmist (outpost), Kraatar (light), Mahg Mar (outpost), Anker (moderae), and Volturnus (light)? 

And I'm not counting Mechan, since that was an exodus of robots...but once again it is a high population...so what was Volturnus before it was light/pre-exodus? Overpopulated? I seem to remember the Volturnus coalition being far outnumbered by the 40K sather troops that invaded that Colorado-sized area.

Anyhow that's FIFTEEN new worlds in addition to the original 22 (23 if you count K'tsa-Kar) worlds in AD that were populated without lowering any of the originals in a span of 172 years. That's an expansion of 68% of the original worlds at the start of that period (65% if you count K'tsa-Kar), with no drops from said migrations and four population increases on said originals in 172 years.

That one heavy new world (Moonworld) is a human population, and none of the human worlds saw declines. Granted the bulk of the new worlds are corporate planets (and assumed to be mixed as such), but at least half of the core four races are not capable of breeding that fast. You just can't get those numbers from 1 or 2 infants per couple every six to nine months. You literally have to breed litters in much shorter spans to explode like that. Rodent breeding: one litter born now, one more next month. Yazirians, I can see them breeding in litters, small ones at that, but litters. Vrusk being insects could also produce numerous eggs. But not so with drals (who bud one at a time and change gender along the way) and humans (1 maybe 2 in 6-9 months). 
I'm not overly fond of Zeb's Guide...nor do I have any qualms stating why. Tongue out

My SF website

rattraveller's picture
rattraveller
December 29, 2011 - 12:51am
The Eorna are saved at the end of the adventure by the return of a ship carrying fertilized eggs. Possibly something similar happened with the Frontier. Possibly the homeworlds are not extinct just a long way away and new Frontier colonists just keep showing up.
Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go?

jedion357's picture
jedion357
December 29, 2011 - 5:28am
rattraveller wrote:
The Eorna are saved at the end of the adventure by the return of a ship carrying fertilized eggs. Possibly something similar happened with the Frontier. Possibly the homeworlds are not extinct just a long way away and new Frontier colonists just keep showing up.
The problem with that is that you should be able to travel to these worlds or at least you'd have an entry point to the frontier if it was a one way wormhole.
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

rattraveller's picture
rattraveller
December 29, 2011 - 9:59am
If we speculate that the homeworlds are say a year or two travel away and the only way to make the journey is to use a special fuel and engine which can not be found in the Frontier then it would work. Yes its a stretch that only the homeworlds would have it but then again what isn't a stretch in this game.
Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go?

Shadow Shack's picture
Shadow Shack
December 29, 2011 - 1:43pm
Quote:
and the only way to make the journey is to use a special fuel and engine which can not be found in the Frontier then it would work.

Of course once the ship arrives, both will be "found in the Frontier". After that it's a matter of reverse engineering and replication. The fuel would become the big issue, but some megacorp would find a way to replicate it given time.

Either way, once those ships have their navigation routes examined, the Frontier would merely expand again...


rattraveller wrote:
The Eorna are saved at the end of the adventure by the return of a ship carrying fertilized eggs.

Actually it didn't returned, it was just forgotten and in orbit.

As for the distant traveler theory, like I said above...once those ships arrive the unknown will become known. No more mystery about "where did they come from", the answers would be found in their computers and it wouldn't take long to start commerce with those oldie homeworlds etc. 

I mean if four species can develope/expand at a rate of +65% worth of worlds every 172 years (read: the average life expectancy of any of them), they would have no problem discovering the origins of those arriving ships.
I'm not overly fond of Zeb's Guide...nor do I have any qualms stating why. Tongue out

My SF website

Deryn_Rys's picture
Deryn_Rys
December 29, 2011 - 3:29pm
Because the populations do not logically match up with the time frame in question when I started work on my own Frontier projects I really started thinking about things, and the one conclusion that I came to was that the Frontier does not fit the Star Wars/Star Trek view of a venerable intergalactic nation, but instead is more like the US at the end of the Civil war in what we lovingly refer to as the wild west era. With that in mind I thought that most colonies should resemble mining camps or Wild West Boom Towns with populations roughly between 2,000-5,000 individuals.

If you cast the Frontier in that light you see moderate populations along the lines of some of the minor cities in the south, and major populations being populated like new York, or Chicago during that era not as moderate or heavy on a planetary scale as in star Wars or Star Trek universes. this idea is supported by the statement that if characters travel several dozen kilometers from most cities they tend to enter untamed wilderness settings, and the Star Law Rangers just beg to be defined as US Marshals during that period.

(Or maybe it's just my love of the wagon train in space motiff, that allows me to see things this way)
"Hey guys I wonder what this does"-Famous last words
"Hey guys, I think it's friendly." -Famous last words
"You go on ahead, I'll catch up." -Famous last words
"Did you here that?" -Famous last words

jedion357's picture
jedion357
December 29, 2011 - 8:58pm
Speaking of Timelines, found this in the old list serv by XCDChance

In the Dixon's Star post earlier I created two ships, the Vivsti and the Voldti. The Vivsti was a basically a stop gap fighter (ADF 3, MR 3, ARx2...). Pretty wimpy compared to newer ships. The Voldti was the first carrier and was similarly weak. Both of these were to have existed just AFTER the first Sathar War (although it wouldn't be called that at the time).

Speaking of which, any idea what they would have called the first Sathar war before they knew of the second one? Lets see...probably varies from race to race.

Yazirians: The Honorable Defense of the United Races
Vrusk: Eradication of the Hive Killers
Dralasites:
Humans: Worm War

EDIT:
The Drals might call it: The Necessary War
The Yaz might call it: The last War (as in.. the last war we had) or the Latest War.
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

rattraveller's picture
rattraveller
December 30, 2011 - 7:28am
No No No you have to understand these special engines the fuel is exhausted when the ship arrives and too expensive to put more on. The fuel is very acidic and destroys the engines leaving nothing to reverse engineer.

Of course this is all done because the beings sent to the Frontier are the undesirables of the homeworlds and they don't want them back.

Now stop trying be so logical and just accept this theory. In fact make it the official canon of the entire game. So it is said So it shall be Now and Forever. Oh and off with your head.
Sounds like a great job but where did you say we had to go?

Shadow Shack's picture
Shadow Shack
December 30, 2011 - 8:17am
Okay my Yazirian uses his ring of 3 wishes to discover the secret behind the drives and acidic fuel.

That leaves me one wish, and I use that to save my head from the gallows.
I'm not overly fond of Zeb's Guide...nor do I have any qualms stating why. Tongue out

My SF website

jedion357's picture
jedion357
December 30, 2011 - 8:16am
Rattraveller is a prime example of why I simply got busy by myself working on a time line to suit me. ;)
I might not be a dralasite, vrusk or yazirian but I do play one in Star Frontiers!

FirstCitizen's picture
FirstCitizen
December 30, 2011 - 1:11pm
Wow, tons of great discussion here! :)  I was avoiding being online during vacation time so I didn't really add my 2-credits worth beyond the initial post.  Took awhile to read the thread last night.

It's interesting that the discussion swerved into populations.  That was actually one of the background reasons for the 'official timeline' question.  I found myself really curious how people viewed the game universe as far as how the planets developed.  If it was only 100 years or so from colonization to federation it seems the planets would be sparsely populated other than a few large cities (sort of Firefly-ish).  On the other hand, 200-300 years pre-federation would make for huge overcrowded core worlds and some pretty dynamic outer systems (perhaps along the lines of the Kris Longknife novel series with multiple 4 billion plus planets).

Regarding "Earth" in the game system.  Well that is a personal preference of mine.  The players/story never have to actually go to Earth, but I've always viewed it as kind of a "glue" if it's referred to in passing, plus it makes it easier to imagine travelling to the 'universe' detailed in the game or book.  I guess that is why I gravitate to the Human background information (lost colony ships from Earth) and timeline in SFMan #16; a good base to start with and to have huge core planet populations and more advanced tech just stick the game in 150FY! :)