A Start on the Sathar

Imperial Lord's picture
Imperial Lord
November 19, 2007 - 7:48pm
I have always preferred a simple campaign... So I enjoy the simplicity of the Sathar and their pure evil.

I don't have Zebulon's, but I have read it. I like the new equipment and skills, but I am not too hot on the new races and certainly DO NOT like the way that the Second Sathar War came out, so I have taken a somewhat different path. Anyway - some thoughts about the Sathar.

After the capture of the obsolescent Assault Carrier by heroic Boarding Party actions of a joint UPF/Clarion Militia operation, research has revealed some fascinating details of the Frontier's great nemesis: The Sathar.

The Sathar are an ancient race, somewhat older even than the Yazirians. There was no contact with anyone, no Cliks or Klooks or anything else.

Their history, much like Earth's, has been one of extreme violence. However, tragically, any Sathar clans that renounced violence or anything other than development of the Universal Empire were annhilliated by the clans which now rule it. The remnants of these ancestors are mere lower caste slaves.

The Empire is divided into three distinct castes: Upper 1% of the Sathar population are the ruling caste. They, linked now to a Supercomputer, make all of the decisions in the Empire. Their control is total - from the Middle Castes by will, and the Lower Castes by force.

The key biological trait of Sathar are their vast reproductive rate: an average female can have 10 to 20 offspring. In the struggles for power through the centuries, the Sathar have become thoroughly brutalized, and life means very, very little to them. Alien life means absolutely nothing to them (more on this later).

To maintain their grasp on power, the Upper Caste grants great privileges and opportunities for the Middle Caste Sathar, which are about 9% - 15% of the population, as determined by the Upper Castes and the SuperComputer. The vagaries of disease and battle necessitate a flexibility towards the maintenance of a solid Middle Caste.

Middle Caste Sathar perform all technical duties in the Empire. All of the scientists, administrators, military officers, and ship crews are populated by Middle Caste Sathar. They are not subjected to the same amount of mental and chemical interference as the Lower Caste Sathar. Plus, they are driven through centuries of conditioning that their place in the Empire is vital and they must perform it until death.

Lower Caste Sathar are a sad bunch. They are the vast majority of the 30 Billion Sathar population. Everything is strictly controlled by the Upper and Middle Castes. Reproduction is closely monitored, with all Lower Caste newborns taken for "Processing" at the numerous Processing Centers around the Empire. Not all newborns survive. All never see their parents again.

From evidence gathered in the historical archives in the captured Sathar computer, all manual labor tasks are handled by these slave-Sathar. They come out of the Processing Centers totally brain-washed. This then gets reinforced by culture, brutalization, propaganda, subliminal messages, and drugs.

Newly processed Lower Caste Sathar are delivered into Labor Units. Raw labor backs up machines and robots to construct and maintain the infrastructure necessary to create and maintain an interstellar Empire. Some Labor Units are taught simple skills with certain machinery. Many millions are drafted into the Army, to be used in wave attacks. They are given laser rifles, a clip or two, and are sent charging into battle.

Lower Caste foot soldiers are totally expendable. Their Middle Caste officers attack accordingly. Lower Caste Sathar are little better than cattle. Their slaughter is sometimes regarded by the Upper Castes and the Supercomputer as positive population control!

The only thing lower than a Lower Caste Sathar is an alien. All aliens are viewed in one of two ways - either they are primitive, and thus will be used as slaves, or they are advanced, and must be killed. There is no negotiation.

Slaves are taken and put into the most dangerous work - usually the mining of radioactive materials. Others grow the insects that the Sathar use as food on huge biofarms. Leadership, soldiers, scientists, and anyone else in the captured society that might be a threat are all killed.

In their explorations, the Sathar have only encountered the Frontier as a society with improved technology to their own, and only slightly. Plus, the Sathar have superior Astrogational ability, as they have been able to mask their comings and goings through the Void to attack UPF planets. They feel that the Frontier is just an obstacle to their continued expansion. Hydrogen and Neutron bombs are all that await for the Federation Planets. H-bombs on cities, and Neutron bombs near valuable resources so they can be later exploited. That is the model from the First Sathar War and Sathar goals in terms of the Frontier remain the same. Total destruction.

The Sathar worship a war god which is used to give the Middle Caste and Upper Caste Sathar a sense of purpose. The war god also is used to convey messages to the Lower Caste, who are so brain washed and drugged out that they completely obey, believing that their great God is commanding them. The message of their God is very simple - Conquer the Universe!

The Clan X and Clan Y rivalry is very real. In the old days, these two super-clans were the two coalitions that came out on top of the centuries of warfare on the Sathar home planet. With the help of the Supercomputer, these two senior clans developed a universal Empire to govern their race, with a negotiated power-sharing agreement. The Supercomputer was constructed by both Sathar clans to help negotiate the final power-sharing agreement.

This enlightened moment allowed a settlement of the Great Wars. The Upper Castes of Clan X and Y then put in place their system for collective scientific, industrial, and military power. Upper Castes Command (aided by the SuperComputer, not influenced by Clan loyalties or rivalries). Middle Castes execute the commands of the Upper Caste. Lower Caste Sathar obey.

My campaign takes place between the two wars, so that lets us dodge a lot of the weird stuff in Zeb's. Four PC races is enough for me. Plus I like to throw in the Memhne (sp?) and the Eorna because those guys are pretty cool - but only as NPC races.

I think this Sathar template is a decent base upon which to build, and I can always have various UPF research "breakthroughs" reveal information about the Sathar as I figure it all out. My dream is to have some sort of Final Campaign that includes the invasion and destruction of the Sathar Empire...
Comments:

Imperial Lord's picture
Imperial Lord
May 15, 2008 - 10:55am

Mycanid - can you briefly explain the Reavers?  I don't know the universe to which you are referring.

Having said that, I would welcome any Sathar offshoots or whatever.  My intent all along has been to put some method to the madness of the canon.  I was forced to make some extensions and judgements simply due to the dearth of material.


Is it possible, for example, that there is some long-forgotten colony of peaceful Sathar?  Or a Clan that got cut off from the main Empire years ago during the wars that is maybe not so ruthless?  Sure - rock on...


I would like to hear Mycanid's, and any other's views on alternative Sathar.  This Project is just to set up guidelines, that all refs are free to alter as they see fit.


Mycanid's picture
Mycanid
May 15, 2008 - 6:31pm
Heya IL ... here is a wiki link on the reavers: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reaver_%28Firefly%29

The links go straight back to the wiki page proper. :)

The base setting for it is the Firelfy/Serenity universe from the tv show/movie/etc.

Reavers are a fictional group of humans in the television series Firefly and the movie Serenity who live on the fringes of civilized space and have become animalistic. Within the show, their existence is officially denied by the Alliance, the ruling government of humanity, but they are a harsh reality around the outer planets.

The theory within the series is that Reavers are men who travelled to the edge of the star system and were driven mad by the open vastness of space. This theory is discussed among most of the crew members of Serenity. Shepherd Book believes that they are "just men" who have been removed from civilization far too long—men who could be helped. Both Jayne and Mal strongly disagree with the Shepherd's opinion. The Reavers' true origin is revealed later in the movie Serenity.

Behavior

Reavers are savage, brutal and primal. Their contact with other humans appears limited to combat, rape, torture, murder, and cannibalism, and no dialogue has ever been shown; yet they are never shown in conflict with each other. They are still able to cooperate and act purposefully enough to use spaceships and set highly technological traps, suggesting that they have retained some level of higher intelligence.

Reavers are known to raid ships and colonies to rape, cannibalize, skin and kill anyone they find. They growl and snarl like beasts, and their methods are considered so horrifying that, when faced with capture, victims have been known to attempt suicide.[1] Mercy killings of those who fall into the hands of Reavers are considered humane. Reavers do occasionally leave intentional survivors of their raids, but they drive these survivors mad through forcing them to watch the torture of other Reaver victims, effectively turning the survivors into second-generation Reavers. Reavers also severely mutilate themselves by cutting themselves, peeling off their skin, or pushing shards of metal into their flesh.[2]

Reavers travel in macabre ships stained with blood and decorated with corpses chained to the hulls. They appear to live their whole lives in space, only touching down on a planet or moon to carry out a raid.

Technology

Reaver ships, captured from their victims, are instantly recognizable by the haphazard red stripes and bodies of victims adorning their hulls. They are also known for flying without proper engine radiation containment, a practice tantamount to suicide. This makes Reaver ships faster than their normal counterparts, but also makes it easier for their prey to detect their arrival and to hide by powering down their ships rather than fleeing.[3] Reavers' habit of ramming their victims with indifference to damaging their own hulls tends to leave their ships appearing battered or torn. Their craft possess a wide variety of exotic weaponry, many of which are designed to snare and capture other ships including harpoon cannons, grappling lines, and energy nets. They use weapons that fire giant sharpened disks similar to buzzsaws or shuriken, in addition to more traditional anti-ship ordnance. Rather than firearms, Reavers will use any sharp object as a weapon in personal combat. To cripple rescue ships, they have been known to leave a bait ship intact with a bomb planted on board set to detonate when another ship docks to help, destroying the already-derelict ship and crippling the ship that tried to provide aid.

Design

Comic book artist Bernie Wrightson, co-creator of Swamp Thing, contributed Reaver concept designs for the film Serenity.[4]

Origin

In the movie Serenity, Reavers are revealed to be humans from the planet Miranda. The Alliance government on Miranda added a chemical agent known as G-23 Paxilon Hydrochlorate, or simply "Pax" (Latin for "peace"), to the planet's air processors. The Pax was supposed to calm the population and weed out aggression. The agent worked, but too well: 99.9% of the population became so lethargic that they stopped working, breeding, talking, and eventually eating and breathing. They lay down where they stood and allowed themselves to die. The remaining 0.1% of the planet's 30 million people had the opposite reaction to the Pax, becoming mindlessly violent and insanely aggressive.[5] They killed everyone not already dead on Miranda before leaving the planet and became known as Reavers.

****

Now part of the Sathar using the Reaver model could be downright scary IMO ... especially if the pc's have no idea/anticipationof coming across a Sathar ship that had been hit by Sathar Reaver types....
@}-,-`- "It is a joyful thing indeed to hold intimate converse with a man after one’s own heart, chatting without reserve about things of interest or the fleeting topics of the world; but such, alas, are few and far between."

– Yoshida Kenko (1283-1350), [i]Tsurezure-Gusa (1340)

Mycanid's picture
Mycanid
May 15, 2008 - 6:33pm
Now another type of Sathar that could fall into this category are those "grey Sathar" creatures I vaguely remember being merchant like creatures that are not warlike like the Sathar proper.

So that could be TWO variants.
@}-,-`- "It is a joyful thing indeed to hold intimate converse with a man after one’s own heart, chatting without reserve about things of interest or the fleeting topics of the world; but such, alas, are few and far between."

– Yoshida Kenko (1283-1350), [i]Tsurezure-Gusa (1340)

Mycanid's picture
Mycanid
May 15, 2008 - 6:45pm
Any more varaiants to come from others??? :D
@}-,-`- "It is a joyful thing indeed to hold intimate converse with a man after one’s own heart, chatting without reserve about things of interest or the fleeting topics of the world; but such, alas, are few and far between."

– Yoshida Kenko (1283-1350), [i]Tsurezure-Gusa (1340)

Imperial Lord's picture
Imperial Lord
May 15, 2008 - 7:01pm
Well Mycanid - the whole Sathar Empire are pretty much Reavers already.  Except for the rape part.  And they have planets and less decorative ships.

But maybe a truly insane renegade Sathar force?  Even the Sathar use radiation protection!  The Middle Caste and especially Upper Caste crews go through years of training to join the Imperial Fleet - they are not to be wasted like Lower Caste riflemen...

The ramming part is also a little far-fetched - after all, according to canon, a ship attempting to ram is always totally destroyed in the impact.  But they could be Sathar driven to such madness that they always attempt to disable and board ships as they encounter them - throwing in nasty quickdeaths and robots and hopped-up Sathar boarding party troopers.

They might have specialized boarding devices that allow them to board a ship that is not totally crippled...

I could see this going somewhere.

Mycanid's picture
Mycanid
May 16, 2008 - 1:52am
Yes indeed ... but these are a huge contingent of Sathar who eat alive OTHER Sathar AS WELL as other members of the race and came about as a mistake in some sort of bio engineering.

AFAICR the Sathar also do not "eat" their captives, and especially not while they are alive. That lamprey like mouth could be put to some scary use though!

Also - I like the idea about disabling a ship rather than destroying it ... what about the old "tractor beam" idea or some similar variant thereof? Magnetics? As far as ramming ... what if they let loose part of the ship into the other ship ... technically destroying the other ship and the part released while leaving the sathar vessel with the raiding party intact to board and eat the captives.

Reavers in Firefly also often TOW a disabled ship back to "Reaver Space", that is, where other Reaver ships are, and then eat them, etc. there "when the time comes".
@}-,-`- "It is a joyful thing indeed to hold intimate converse with a man after one’s own heart, chatting without reserve about things of interest or the fleeting topics of the world; but such, alas, are few and far between."

– Yoshida Kenko (1283-1350), [i]Tsurezure-Gusa (1340)

Mycanid's picture
Mycanid
May 16, 2008 - 1:55am
Once again ... these Sathar would not be part of the overall organization of the Sathar as you present ... they are an immense "anomoly" that recently came about WAY on the edge of space and have only just begun making their way into the known systems.

If this would not work, why not have these "Reaver Sathar" be an anomoly of the "neutral/mercantile" grey Sathar that pop up from time to time? Those grey Sathar have been developoed very little iirc....
@}-,-`- "It is a joyful thing indeed to hold intimate converse with a man after one’s own heart, chatting without reserve about things of interest or the fleeting topics of the world; but such, alas, are few and far between."

– Yoshida Kenko (1283-1350), [i]Tsurezure-Gusa (1340)

Rum Rogue's picture
Rum Rogue
May 16, 2008 - 5:11am
Mycanid wrote:

grey Sathar that pop up from time to time? Those grey Sathar have been developoed very little iirc....


Are you refering to the S’Sessu from Dragon magazine?
Time flies when your having rum.

Im a government employee, I dont goof-off. I constructively abuse my time.

Imperial Lord's picture
Imperial Lord
May 16, 2008 - 6:57am

Yes - I find this whole thing quite intriguing.

The gears are turning...


As for merchantile Sathar, I'm not so sure.  Again, "reaver-type" Sathar might be nutty enough to fight their way from the Empire, but merchantile ones would be annhiliated long ago.


I don't think it is productive to pick every endeavor out there and then invent a Sathar for them.  First a merchant Sathar, then a priestly Sathar, then a hippie Sathar...  No thanks.


But the reaver idea has "legs" as they say...


Mycanid's picture
Mycanid
May 16, 2008 - 12:31pm
Rum Rogue wrote:
Mycanid wrote:

grey Sathar that pop up from time to time? Those grey Sathar have been developoed very little iirc....


Are you refering to the S’Sessu from Dragon magazine?


Yes ... I think that was their name ... my nickname for them was "merchant sathar".

Also IL ... I agree with you in terms of not going down the road of the sathar fragmentation thingee ... but the reavers are one in particular that I have liked the idea of. And in some ways the S'Sessu are an already existing "part" of the Star Frontiers corpus that has been given to us. Why not come up with something for them? :)
@}-,-`- "It is a joyful thing indeed to hold intimate converse with a man after one’s own heart, chatting without reserve about things of interest or the fleeting topics of the world; but such, alas, are few and far between."

– Yoshida Kenko (1283-1350), [i]Tsurezure-Gusa (1340)

Imperial Lord's picture
Imperial Lord
May 16, 2008 - 12:54pm
What is the S'ssnesnu dealie?  I won't call it canon, since it is from Dragon, and IMO, the Dragon SF stuff that I have seen has been poor.

Polyhedron (RPGA mag) was slightly better, with the Privateer rules and the Rafflurs and Laser Pods.  But overall, I found their material to be sub-par.  They were certainly guilty of having very few adventures.

The Reaver thing works because of the nature of the Sathar themselves.  But I am going to have to be thoroughly convinced to have Ferengi-Sathar.

Mycanid's picture
Mycanid
May 16, 2008 - 1:01pm
Here is the rough info on the S'sessu:

Description

S'sessu are almost identical in appearance to Sathar, the most obvious difference between them being body coloration. A Sathar's skin is yellow or brown, but a S'sessu has a bright pink- or green-tinted skin. The S'sessu do not have the patterns of dots or stripes on their heads that the Sathar have. Otherwise, all other descriptive information on Sathar can be applied to S'sessu.

Senses

A S'sessu's sense of hearing is equal to a Human's. Its sense of taste is slightly better than a Human's, but its sense of smell is somewhat less well developed. A S'sessu's double pupils give it superior all-around vision, allowing it to see in several directions at once. A S'sessu always has a +2 Initiative Modifier because of its excellent vision.

Speech

S'sessu speak with a hissing lisp. They have quickly learned Pan-Galactic since their existence was discovered, and they can speak it normally. They can also speak the language of their own race.

Society and customs

In general, S'sessu are extremely competitive and self-centered. Each individual does what it wants, caring little for others except for those who can help the S'sessu achieve its goals. Power and possessions are only for those S'sessu who can take and keep them. This would seem to create a society where murder and violence are rampant, but this is not the case. Indeed, at times S'sessu can be highly organized and cooperative, and violent crime is an uncommon occurrence among them.

If a S'sessu believes there is some sort of personal gain to be had in doing so, it will work cooperatively with other beings. A group of S'sessu might pool their money to build an interstellar spaceship, and another group might hire a police force to protect them from robbery or murder by others. However, S'sessu will have only one leader among them in most situations. Thus, a S'sessu company is controlled by one extremely powerful boss; the captain of a S'sessu spaceship is the absolute leader of all beings aboard that ship. S'sessu philosophies are based on getting and keeping power, not on what is right or wrong. To a S'sessu, the only actions that are "wrong" are those that keep it from reaching its goal in the best and safest manner possible.

The discovery of the S'sessu has presented a puzzle for xenobiologists. The S'sessu have no explanation for their similarity to Sathar and were in fact unaware of the existence of the Sathar until contact with the UPF. The current theory held among scientists is that the S'sessu are an offshoot of the Sathar race, and this seems well-supported. If this is true, the separation between the Sathar and S'sessu would have to have occurred more than 20,000 years ago, long before the Sathar or the S'sessu are known to have developed space travel. It has been speculated that an ancient unknown race of aliens (possibly the group known to xenoarchaeologists as the Tetrarchs) transplanted a small group of S'sessu to their present homeworld at that time.

S'sessu only hold claim to a small region of space, consisting of two stellar systems (each with one small inhabited planet) lying ten light years from the Gruna Garu system, on a line running from Dixon's Star to Gruna Garu and on to the S'sessu worlds. Due to their similarity to the Sathar, it was only through luck and careful diplomacy that they were not immediately attacked as hostile aliens by the rescue force that found their homeworld. Little is known about the S'sessu's history, as friendly diplomatic relations have only recently been established.

The S'sessu are extremely aggressive business dealers. In their attempts to gain an equal footing with the other races in the Frontier Sector, they have hired adventurers to spy on, infiltrate, steal from, or suppress activities the S'sessu deem "unfriendly" in the Frontier systems closest to them. This has caused Star Law to take an active interest in certain foreign and business affairs of the S'sessu, though the race as a whole is not regarded as dangerous or hostile.

Attitudes

The S'sessu are essentially amoral (neither knowing nor caring about the difference between good and evil). It is a good bet that a S'sessu will always do exactly what is best for it, even to the extent of betraying others without a second thought to save itself. This "every-worm-for-itself" attitude makes the S'sessu disliked, especially by the Vrusk (who have suffered in certain business dealings from the S'sessu love for "dirty tricks").

Nonetheless, the other races have learned to work with the S'sessu, often with great success and mutual benefit for both sides. S'sessu adventurers often work well as team members, especially if they see their chances of finding personal gain and wealth are improved through cooperative effort. Of course, a better offer might always be made by someone else, leaving the door open for possible treachery.

Special abilities

Ability Insight. Because of the extremely competitive nature of S'sessu society, individuals have developed the ability to judge the strengths and weaknesses of opponents. All S'sessu start with a score of 5% in this ability. This is the percentage chance a S'sessu has of learning one ability score or skill level of a being he observes. The S'sessu must see his opponent actually doing something related to that ability score before he can make this judgment.

Example: Asphenomenas, a S'sessu, sees a smuggler outside a spaceport. The smuggler is trying to shoot a beam weapon at a guard robot. Asphenomenas secretly watches the smuggler, and the player tells the Referee that Asphenomenas wants to use his Ability Insight to determine the smuggler's DEX score (based upon the smuggler's shooting ability). The Referee secretly rolls percentile dice. If the die roll is 05 or under, Asphenomenas will have learned the smuggler's DEX score. A roll over 05 would indicate uncertainty and no knowledge gained.

Ability Insight may be increased by spending experience, just like any other ability score may be raised. This ability may only be used once per game hour, simulating the intense concentration required to use it.

Creating a S'sessu character

S'sessu characters are created in the same way as other characters. The following Ability Modifiers are used when creating a S'sessu:

STR/STA: +0

DEX/RS: +0

INT/LOG: +10

PER/LDR: -10

S'sessu have the same movement rate as Sathar do. They walk at 10 meters per turn, run at 20 meters per turn, and move long distances at 3 kilometers per hour.

The following Racial Reaction Modifiers may also be used when dealing with S'sessu:

Humans have a -5 reaction penalty to S'sessu.

Vrusk have a -10 reaction penalty to S'sessu.

S'sessu have a +5 reaction bonus to Sathar.

S'sessu have a -5 reaction penalty to Vrusk.

(Cited from the 25th AER Star Frontiers Rule Book by Zeb Cook & Lawrence Schick)

Source: http://starfrontiers.wikia.com/wiki/S'sessu

@}-,-`- "It is a joyful thing indeed to hold intimate converse with a man after one’s own heart, chatting without reserve about things of interest or the fleeting topics of the world; but such, alas, are few and far between."

– Yoshida Kenko (1283-1350), [i]Tsurezure-Gusa (1340)

Mycanid's picture
Mycanid
May 16, 2008 - 1:07pm
Hmm ... guess they were green or bright pink rather than grey ... may mistake.

I think they were first mentioned in Dragon magazine #96 or so???

Here is a link to a pdf of the Dragon magazine article ... much of what I posted is said there, but if you want original sources and such:

http://www.f4fbbs.com/StarFrontiers/rules/Dragon/The%20Coming%20of%20the%20Ssessu.pdf
@}-,-`- "It is a joyful thing indeed to hold intimate converse with a man after one’s own heart, chatting without reserve about things of interest or the fleeting topics of the world; but such, alas, are few and far between."

– Yoshida Kenko (1283-1350), [i]Tsurezure-Gusa (1340)

Imperial Lord's picture
Imperial Lord
May 16, 2008 - 1:12pm
Thanks for the profile, Mycanid.

I don't know if I am really feeling the Ssessnu, though.  They sound a lot like the Lawn Gnomes from Zebs (what are they called - Ifshnits or something?) with all the mercantile-greedy jazz.

I also can't really imagine a society that is "amoral."  I guess it might be possible, but I can't imagine anyone trusting these guys or wanting to have any part of them with those kinds of attitudes.  The Core Four would have big problems dealing with them. 

Their resemblance to the Sathar would also cause many problems with the people of the Frontier.  How does everyone "get the memo" that these worms don't want to kill you, they just want to scam you out of all of your money?

Mycanid's picture
Mycanid
May 16, 2008 - 1:18pm
I agree ... and I had thought similar things ... but perhaps way out on the frontier planets the local authorities and/or trandesmen could build up a relationship of trust ... slowly. I think they could fit for that.

Be aware though ... I am not necessarily "pushing" for a specific articulation of them as a whole as a society or what not.

I am moreso giving another example of a "sathar variant" that already exists in the "standard published material" ... together with them a "sathar reaver" variant might be a good justification in the rules for setting up a new category of the variants proper.

I am not sure that we have to detail the societies that much in the rulebook, perhaps just make mention that they exist, have been encountered/spotted, etc. and then leave the rest to the individual GM's.
@}-,-`- "It is a joyful thing indeed to hold intimate converse with a man after one’s own heart, chatting without reserve about things of interest or the fleeting topics of the world; but such, alas, are few and far between."

– Yoshida Kenko (1283-1350), [i]Tsurezure-Gusa (1340)

Imperial Lord's picture
Imperial Lord
May 16, 2008 - 1:23pm
Sure - options and offshoots should always be welcome for individual refs to put into their campaigns. 

In my opinion, the Reaver angle seems a much better "fit" for the Sathar.

But maybe the S'ssneu can be done.  Although I would say that if I was a ref I would certainly want to introduce them myself in my way rather than just plugging them in through the Dragon magazine article.  But that's just me...

Mycanid's picture
Mycanid
May 16, 2008 - 1:30pm
I agree ... so then ... perhaps in the book to be published something like an entry of "Sathar Variants" could be added after the descriptino of Sathar society as a whole ... and two different entries could be added?

One for the S'sessu, using some material already published, and perhaps with a few reflections on the material in the context of the newly found info regarding society (i.e. an update)

And another for the Sathar Reaver concept ... yet to be fleshed out of course!

****

Such an entry would also allow for future ideas of any variants that would really "make sense" enough to be published in a standard rules set I think.
@}-,-`- "It is a joyful thing indeed to hold intimate converse with a man after one’s own heart, chatting without reserve about things of interest or the fleeting topics of the world; but such, alas, are few and far between."

– Yoshida Kenko (1283-1350), [i]Tsurezure-Gusa (1340)

AZ_GAMER's picture
AZ_GAMER
May 16, 2008 - 7:17pm
maybe Sathar that have been in contact with other spieces too long and have been rejected by the Sathar clans as contaminated who go mad could develope reaver like tendancies like canabalism and un-restrained brutatility. However, I think the reaver concept plays much better for humans, and yaz who are much more prone to emotional based life as opposed to more clinical vrusk and easier going Dralasites. I would think that the Reaver tendency to rape, mutilate, and canabalize their victims dosent fit the Sathar model. Possibly the tendency to mutilate but with the Satharian superiority complex the act of eating an inferior race, while possible, would be considered defilement and contaminating. Rape, well I try to steer clear of that topic in game sessions as it could be a real touchy subject for mixed gender gamers not to mention adds nothing in the lines of enjoyment to the game. I just make the assumption that capture by races inclined to such acts would be a fate worse than death. I don't know many refs that really would like to role play out such a scenario for a PC who falls prey to such adversaries and those who do really should see psychologist. Sure its ok in a profile right up to mention that the race has such proclivities but I would strongly suggestion not going there in a game, such games take the whole genre to a very dark place that is just not healthy or fun. While I don't mean to knock white wolf gaming, who have some great innovative game techniques in their games, they are a prime example of genre games that embrace such appetites and just take gaming to a place that is not only fun but out right depressing or embarassing.

Mycanid's picture
Mycanid
May 17, 2008 - 3:05am
Just so you know AZ ... the discussion on particulars has been started, and maybe clarified and modified a little in another thread.

Part of the thing about reavers is that they are an UNEXPECTED result of biochemical tinkering. With that in mind there is all sorts of room for Sathar with reaver like tendencies ... I have modified some of the behavior though ... Sathar rape is just silly IMO.

As for RP'ing specifics I TOTALLY agree with you as regards not rp'ing out a detailed occasion of being tortured by one ... yeesh. But such was never my intent! To me one of the effective things about SF in general lies in the fact that that kind of stuff just isn't present. If the Sathar catch you ... you are either dead or brainwashed/hypnotized etc. Period.

To me the Sathar Reaver would be a presence of another malevolent evil of a sort even the Sathar would fear ... but small enough so as not to destroy everything. In the tv episodes much of the episodes of the firefly show used the reavers as occasions for white knuckling and suspense ... I think it would be a natural fit!
@}-,-`- "It is a joyful thing indeed to hold intimate converse with a man after one’s own heart, chatting without reserve about things of interest or the fleeting topics of the world; but such, alas, are few and far between."

– Yoshida Kenko (1283-1350), [i]Tsurezure-Gusa (1340)

ceranko's picture
ceranko
August 5, 2008 - 6:50pm
This is incredible ! Ever since I was a kid playing Star Frontiers I always loved the Sathar. They were the most creative alien race ever made! Totally evil and fanatic. And the whole idea of the hypnotic control and psi powers was creepy as hell. Thanks for the new inside scoop on their culture.

ceranko's picture
ceranko
August 5, 2008 - 7:05pm
I hate the idea of the Sessu. Pan Galactic citizens would kill them on sight, especially after the Sathar wars. Not to mention the fact that they are cheating evil schemers. Why would humans and the other races put up with them? It makes no sense. People in the PGC would kill them off. Sathar in my opinion would eat their non Sathar captives, and I can see them torturing other races and maybe feeding off the psychic  power fear generates. Torture could be addictive to them, which is why they place the lower class in such horrific conditions. They feed off the fear of their victims and get a psychic high. I can see them torturing the captives to the point of exhaustion possibly using their hypnosis to increase the levels of fear to mind shattering and then using their lamprey like mouths to feed off the brain, absorbing the seratonin and dmt produced by the victim for a massive ecstatic high. That is really disturbing and disgusting. Kinda like a psychic vampire. Once this fact got out the entire UPF would call a crusade against a race like this. Sessu, whatever. This is how a Sathar should be. The type of creature that is truely evil and embraces it. Foot in mouth

ceranko's picture
ceranko
August 5, 2008 - 7:17pm
I'm just really tired of gamers wanting to play a non evil character from an evil race. It was so bad in D&D everyone wanted to play a damb Drow. I was so tired of that crap that I made a campaign without Drow. Gee, Im a Drow character look everyone in the village a Drow ! Kill it ! I also hated the idea of half orcs ect. Its an orc, how would a half orc survive in a orc enviroment?It would be killed outright as weak, or it would be killed out of rage for being smarter than the others. In my campaigns  Orcs ATE people, there was no RAPE -humans are inferior, kill them and take their territory. Make drinking cups out of their skulls. Plus their good eatin! I like the "DARK AGES" to be dark, what can I say? It's just one of my pet peeves. But I really want to play a Drow. WHAAAAAAAAAAA !!!!!!!!!! Sad cliched bastard ! Sorry for the rant. You just don't mess with a good thing.

Imperial Lord's picture
Imperial Lord
August 10, 2008 - 11:24am
Ceranko -

I agree completely.  Following the nuking of Pale and New Pale, the First Sathar War, and the infiltration and sabotage in the period thereafter, it is clear to me that the Sathar intend to conquer the galaxy and enslave all primitive life, and murder all advance civilizations.

The Eorna are a perfect example of this.  Their experience is a template for what the Sathar do to an advanced race.  At some point, Sathar probes detected Eorna transmissions, which sought peace and contact, and the Sathar rewarded this outreach with a savage invasion of genocidal proportions.  To make sure that the Eorna never got up off the mat, they left their transmitter behind in the base with the Cyboslugs, which when discovered by the PCs in the second Volturnus module, sent the invasion described in StarSpawn of Volturnus.

Then you have the Mehmne.  This is a low-tech race on the outskirts of the Frontier.  In the Beyond the Frontier series, they were enslaved to feed the Empire's War Machine.  This is consistent with the Sathar policy of "kill the smart ones, enslave the not-so-smart ones."

So I think within these two canon situations, you have evidence of Sathar behavior and official policies towards other sentient beings.  This is why I had a problem with the Zuraquor being Sathar "allies".  Here is yet another example of how the canon contradicts itself.  Not that you cannot have Zuraquor, but they would be slave-soldiers of the Sathar.  And, unlike the Janasarries or Mamluks from our own history, the Sathar would never allow them to seize power.

As to your "I want to play a Drow" example, I would laugh any PC that wanted to play a Sathar out of my campaign!  It's just not supposed to be done.


Mycanid's picture
Mycanid
August 13, 2008 - 10:52am
Imperial Lord wrote:
....As to your "I want to play a Drow" example, I would laugh any PC that wanted to play a Sathar out of my campaign!  It's just not supposed to be done.[/quote

I agree with IL on this one too Ceranko. :)
@}-,-`- "It is a joyful thing indeed to hold intimate converse with a man after one’s own heart, chatting without reserve about things of interest or the fleeting topics of the world; but such, alas, are few and far between."

– Yoshida Kenko (1283-1350), [i]Tsurezure-Gusa (1340)

Ascent's picture
Ascent
April 27, 2009 - 12:15pm
Imperial Lord wrote:
What is the S'ssnesnu dealie?  I won't call it canon, since it is from Dragon, and IMO, the Dragon SF stuff that I have seen has been poor.

Polyhedron (RPGA mag) was slightly better, with the Privateer rules and the Rafflurs and Laser Pods.  But overall, I found their material to be sub-par.  They were certainly guilty of having very few adventures.

The Reaver thing works because of the nature of the Sathar themselves.  But I am going to have to be thoroughly convinced to have Ferengi-Sathar.

On the contrary. The S'sessu are canon because they were introduced by Starfrontier's co-creator Dave Cook. And if you look up the term for what constitutes canon, you will find that creations by the creator of an original setting dictates canon.

Dave had also said that he intended for there to be 13 spacefaring races in Star Frontiers, not just 4. The "core 4" was just an artificial preset imposed by TSR managment when marketing the game towards families.

Also, people often love to play a goodguy character from among evil races, and since the Sathar have no "goodguys" by rule, then a whole different goodguy race is needed. That's where the S'sessu come in. Also, there is a lot of potential for turning the S'sessu into saviors in the end of the Sathar story, when you compare to other similar story lines in sci-fi, where a divergent faction of the enemy race ends up leading the beaten down races to freedom.

Their variant color makes them less likely to "be shot on sight" along with the fact that their discovery would have been huge news throughout the frontier, so that people, while not trusting them in the least, would likely hold back from shooting them. Though that's not to say there wouldn't be hate crimes toward them. It's just not something that would occur frequently enough to keep them from interacting in public at all in the frontier. The border worlds, however, is a different story. They don't get the news so quickly or emphatically, not to mention a lot of backwards people with a distrust towards offworlders to begin with, let alone Sathar-looking ones.

The beligerance and haughtiness of some, trying to laugh others out of their game for their free-thinking ideas, such as wanting to play a goodguy version of the enemy, deserves nothing less than a very personal and bloody beatdown. I feel sorry for anyone in your play group, if you even have one. A Referee/GM should work with their players to create a campaign they are all comfortable with, not dictating and enforcing their personal prejudices upon the players. If the player has an idea, the Referee/GM has an obligation to work with that player to help them make their idea playable within the campaign, if possible (whether they personally like the idea or not; the players aren't creating characters for the Ref/GM to play). There is nowhere near enough setting material in Star Frontiers to say "this is how it must be done". Roleplaying is about the players having fun and contributing to the development of a story together, not just for helping the Referee/GM have fun and develop his/her story.
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Anonymous's picture
w00t (not verified)
April 27, 2009 - 1:39pm
Ascent, do I sense an attack by you on Imp or GM's in general? Money mouth

I'm wondering if you have GM'd a game before. There is no such obligation to help make Player's ideas playable within a campaign. Player's are bound to the will of the GM for good or for bad (depends on your point of view).

Unless you have a really good crew of Player's, bending to their wishes would most likely cause a lot of grief for everyone.

GM: "This is the box, we can discuss stepping outside of it but untimately I know where the campaign is going and will make the final decision. If that isn't the type of game you want I'm sorry, I believe this is the best for all of us to have fun."

-----
Maybe David will shed some light on the 13 races. I'll tag that as one of the questions. :-D



Rum Rogue's picture
Rum Rogue
April 28, 2009 - 4:38am
EDIT

Went off on a rant here befor reading through previous posts... please disregard previous prathering and ranting in this space.

(its amazing how much a crappy beer can irritate me.)


lets just say that I have no problem with "this race/species/class is not available for this campaign, or at least this section of the campaign"

But if I am a player dont tell me "this is the box and you are not allowed out of it." The box is a good way to keep your campaign together, but a group of players is going to find ways to skirt the edges without even trying too!!
Also, by thinking outside the box, a good GM can incorperate a pc's background and goals into an existing campaign, a whole new campaign, or at least a side adventure or two.
Time flies when your having rum.

Im a government employee, I dont goof-off. I constructively abuse my time.

Imperial Lord's picture
Imperial Lord
April 28, 2009 - 5:00pm

Does Ascent = RumRogue?


Imperial Lord's picture
Imperial Lord
April 28, 2009 - 5:26pm
In case Rum Rogue is not Ascent, let me say this:

My campaigns are not going to be radically changed by the addition of such a radical race.  As I said earlier, the Reaver Sathar are a good fit.  Changing colors of Sathar and changing their personality is just cheeezy.  What's next?  Green hippie Sathar?  Blue monk Sathar?  Come on.

If David Cook made the Ssesneu, I would say that he made a mistake.  Game designers do that sometimes.  I should know - I am a game designer.

I agree, Ascent, about giving a wide berth to players.  I would entertain a suggestion for almost any race, but such a being should be cool and reasonable, not crap from Zebs or some ill-considered mag.  The issue of canon, so to speak, is almost irrelevant.

Ultimately - whatever floats yer boat.  If you want to have a rainbow of colored Sathar in your campaign, rock on.  I'm not going to tell you how to play your game.  I will assure you, however, that NONE of my players have ever complained about how I limit the class/race choices in my RPG game mastering.

Not a single complaint, ever.

Rum Rogue's picture
Rum Rogue
April 29, 2009 - 7:51am
Imperial Lord wrote:
In case Rum Rogue is not Ascent, let me say this:

Two different people. I like this site, but not enough to make a second profile.

Imperial Lord wrote:
My campaigns are not going to be radically changed by the addition of such a radical race.  As I said earlier, the Reaver Sathar are a good fit.  Changing colors of Sathar and changing their personality is just cheeezy.  What's next?  Green hippie Sathar?  Blue monk Sathar?  Come on.

I agree.
Blue monk Sathar sounds like Pokemon thingy... very cheezy.

Imperial Lord wrote:
If David Cook made the Ssesneu, I would say that he made a mistake. 

I once read that SSeseu was the original Sathar conception.  Cant find that anymore...
Imperial Lord wrote:

I agree, Ascent, about giving a wide berth to players.  I would entertain a suggestion for almost any race, but such a being should be cool and reasonable, not crap from Zebs or some ill-considered mag.  The issue of canon, so to speak, is almost irrelevant.
Once again, Right-on!!
I, personnally, think that AD and Zebs star maps are too small for the amount of races introduced by Dragaon and Zebs. If i wanted that much variety, i would be playing StarTreck or StarWarz.

Imperial Lord wrote:
 I will assure you, however, that NONE of my players have ever complained about how I limit the class/race choices in my RPG game mastering. Not a single complaint, ever.
Nice.
I had one complaint.  he wanted to play a Kanga-Roo from Zebs. In the campaign I was running, the Rimmers hadnt yet made contact the Frontier. I told that this campaign was going to lead up to their discovery, then he could play one.

But, my post was inspired-by/aimed-at w00t's comment about telling the players where the box is and they couldnt leave it. I interpretted it incorrectly and went on a rant.
My appologies to anyone whom felt wronged, slighted, or attacked by what I said.
Time flies when your having rum.

Im a government employee, I dont goof-off. I constructively abuse my time.